A long time ago, a colleague and I visited a supplier in another state. While we were waiting alone in a conference room, we noticed an unusual looking note taking device at the front of the room. It was a very large easel that looked like a white board, with a tray of markers and an eraser. But it was clearly electronic because it had stuff attached to the top and bottom, some buttons, and was plugged in. We walked up to the easel, drew a large circle on it, and pressed what looked like a COPY button, curious how it was going to perform that task.
The machine whirred into action, scrolling the white board material (which turned out to be a flexible plastic-like film) over the top of the easel, and paying out fresh whiteboard up from the bottom. A perfect duplicate of our circle on paper spat out of a slot in the machine, akin to a FAX machine. As the scrolling came to a stop, it revealed a previously hidden drawing -- someone had drawn a large "X" in the middle of the page. I guess we weren't the only ones who were curious how the machine worked.
In the 1990s, I went to a lab in Tokyo for a presentation, and they had me using a freestanding whiteboard. When the board got full, I grabbed the eraser but a few in the audience started going "wait! wait". I thought they needed more time to copy the writing, but then a guy came up from the audience and pressed a button at the side of the board. The writing surface scrolled off to the side and a printout emerged from a machine in the corner.
We had a few of those years ago. It kind of worked but was also another device that you had to understand how to load paper or work through error conditions.
In a previous apartment, I painted a wall with several coats of blackboard (chalkboard) paint and then used fancy chalk on it, and a chalkboard eraser. Worked pretty well. The landlord even let me keep it up when I moved out, because the next tenants liked it.
We did this when we renovated. Had a kitchen wall section chalk board painted for notes, as well as a much larger section of the kids play room wall.
The notes was useful space on the kitchen and the playroom one the kids just loved to doodle. Their friends were always impressed and loved to be able to leave a tag or doodle on it when they came over.
We tried a layer of magnetic paint too, but it didn’t work nearly as well.
I'm of the generation that had student labs (with eye-wateringly expensive computers) full of chalk dust. Chalk dust everywhere. I still have chalk dust trauma I guess and even with better housekeeping habits I'd think twice about it. Doodling opportunity so very tempting though.
Once, long ago, I wrote some pithy, earth-shattering thoughts onto the wall while extremely high, and was self-satisfied at the gift I'd bestowed upon the world. The next day I had no idea or recollection of what it meant, and on reflection I wish it had been on a white board and not wallpaper.
Your comment reminds me of my 18~25 year old self when I never renewed an apartment lease as a way to avoid cleaning my bathtub.
It was my least favorite childhood chore and I’m mid40s and still haven’t done it once myself. At this point it’s petty but I refuse to do it on principle alone, to keep the streak alive
Different purpose than a whiteboard, because its much smaller and not really for sharing with a group. But I've used a Rocketbook 'reusable notebook' off and on for a while for any random notes at my desk. I used to just fill up a whiteboard by my desk with random notes instead of wasting paper, but now I scribble things in the Rocketbook instead. You write in it with an erasable pen, and can clean the pages off with a bit of water and a cloth.
I just flip to a blank page and write down anything i need. Then once in a while i go through and erase all the pages and start fresh again. I like that i can write very small and detailed - unlike with a whiteboard. But it also isn't a complete waste of paper. (and its still physical, unlike taking notes on an iPad)
It’s a neat concept, but I think the microwaveable ones have a shorter longevity. They say it can only be microwaved around 5 times. I suspect they just work because when heated, the erasable ink becomes invisible.
On the normal pocketbooks, the ink actually washes off with just a bit of water. It’s very similar to a whiteboard in that regard. I know I’ve cleaned out my notebook more than five times, it’s still basically good as new. Except one page where I accidentally used a normal non-erasable pen.
This works because the solvent base for the ink is alcohol, so a much simpler method that doesn't waste ink is to use a small spray bottle of isopropyl alcohol. Ideally 99/100%, if you can get it. (Try eBay.)
This doubles up as an effective whiteboard cleaner.
Isopropanol is relatively safe to drink in small amounts (single digit mL). It's only about 2x stronger than ethanol, and your liver metabolizes it to acetone, which is safe.
Denatured alcohol contains methanol, which is way more dangerous since you metabolise it to formaldehyde.
Source: I unknowingly got drunk on IPA fumes before work one time and wrote some really bad code
Methanol is indeed quite toxic but it is not the only denaturant. There are many others [0]. When methanol is used as a denaturant, special labeling is required [1]. Most of the denatured ethyl alcohol I've seen in pharmacies in recent years has not contained methanol but merely bittering agents, because methanol is so dangerous.
I second that. I discovered that IPA dissolves sharpie resin when doing DIY circuitboards via toner transfer. When you do toner transfer, you can use a Sharpie to fix up imperfections in the artwork before doing the etching. After the copper is etched, you remove the ink.
The first time I did that, I tried IPA first, and that took off the Sharpie touch ups, not doing anything to the laser printer toner.
Next up, acetone: swoosh, clean copper in one wipe.
You can do the same with a Sharpie. All inks contain a solvent for their pigment, so you can use the same marker to remove the same ink. Just mark over it and immediately wipe it off.
1) Try a few different "dustless" chalk brands. Pick the one that's the least dusty. It probably won't write as nicely. 2) Erase with a damp cloth, not a dry felt eraser. 3) Use a blackboard with relatively low surface roughness. It won't write as nicely.
I have a bunch of these kinds of kid's drawing tablets lying around. They're the closest thing I have find do far to digital paper. https://amzn.eu/d/4gsa3pc
Me too! Also, whiteboard tape exists: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NBL3UMU . I've started using it on storage bins (easier to get over the mental hurdle of labeling when I don't have to worry about the label changing later), and homeprod network switches (I'm terrible at recording port assignments electronically).
I have a product labeled Boogieboard that I bought on a whim at Costco years back. I want to say it was less that $10? Really simple, no connectivity, it does really seem like an etch-a-sketch with a stylus instead of knobs. Stuck it on the fridge with tacky-tack and it’s been going strong for many years. About the size of A5 (or half an 8-1/2 x 11 piece of paper).
EDIT: looking at the link above, it is called the Jot and sells for $18. Still made apparently.
I have a couple boogie boards, and they're very handy for making notes or single-session scribbles, but their major drawback is the "all or nothing" reset.
I don't think I realized how often I need to erase or update a small section of a list or diagram without erasing the entire thing until using these.
I'm glad they work for you, but out of curiosity, does anyone else find... just about everything about blackboards unappealing? The feel of chalk scratching on the board, the sound, drawing the characters (making curves feels awkward to me), even the chalk dust. I prefer whiteboards in almost every way except for markers drying out. It's one of those things I've kinda never understood why so many people prefer chalkboards.
Scratchy chalk is low-quality chalk or poor technique. Every writing instrument has its own techniques. Like how fountain pens work better at a lower angle and lower pressure, and ball-point pens work better at a higher pressure and the angle doesn’t matter so much.
Or poor quality boards. I know I didn’t use a real slate board until later in university and it makes a world of difference. Really you need both, great chalk and a great board. But when you have both the feel is superb :)
I enjoy those sensations, presumably because it’s associated with solving problems. I recognize that objectively they’re slightly unpleasant, although nowhere near as bad as other things people learn to enjoy like cigarettes.
Of course, you could always use a black board instead.
They do still make chalk...
Or, you could go with the $50,000 IoT board so Amazon and Goggle can scrape everything you draw in your meetings (they're already scraping your email anyway).
I used a piece of plexiglass spray painted white on the back with Sharpie markers. Nail polish remover and towels cleans it. I didn't like being able to accidentally rub off parts
in my experience, there are whiteboards... and there are ceramic whiteboards. anything non-ceramic is going to gunk up over time and will never become completely clean.
the ceramic ones are awesome because they erase effortlessly and resist the inevitable ghosting and staining that will happen with the cheaper ones. they are super durable and will last a lifetime.
the only downside is they are reallllly heavy and require a more thoughtful installation.
Are you sure about that? According to Wikipedia both gypsum and calcite are used. Apparently, gypsum is used for colored chalk, and calcite is used for white chalk:
> Chalk sticks are produced in white and in various colours, especially for use with blackboards. White chalk sticks are made mainly from calcium carbonate derived from mineral chalk or limestone, while coloured chalk sticks are made from calcium sulphate in its dihydrate form, CaSO4·2H2O, derived from gypsum.[6][7] Chalk sticks containing calcium carbonate typically contain 40–60% of CaCO3 (calcite).
[6] "How chalk is made – material, making, used, processing, procedure, product, industry". madehow.com. Retrieved February 17, 2021.
[7] Corazza, M.; Zauli, S.; Pagnoni, A.; Virgili, A. (2012). "Allergic contact dermatitis caused by metals in blackboard chalk: a case report". Acta Dermato-Venereologica. 92 (4): 436–437. doi:10.2340/00015555-1296. PMID 22367154.
The first of these seems more relevant... I'm not quite sure what the second citation adds.
A long time ago, a colleague and I visited a supplier in another state. While we were waiting alone in a conference room, we noticed an unusual looking note taking device at the front of the room. It was a very large easel that looked like a white board, with a tray of markers and an eraser. But it was clearly electronic because it had stuff attached to the top and bottom, some buttons, and was plugged in. We walked up to the easel, drew a large circle on it, and pressed what looked like a COPY button, curious how it was going to perform that task.
The machine whirred into action, scrolling the white board material (which turned out to be a flexible plastic-like film) over the top of the easel, and paying out fresh whiteboard up from the bottom. A perfect duplicate of our circle on paper spat out of a slot in the machine, akin to a FAX machine. As the scrolling came to a stop, it revealed a previously hidden drawing -- someone had drawn a large "X" in the middle of the page. I guess we weren't the only ones who were curious how the machine worked.
In the 1990s, I went to a lab in Tokyo for a presentation, and they had me using a freestanding whiteboard. When the board got full, I grabbed the eraser but a few in the audience started going "wait! wait". I thought they needed more time to copy the writing, but then a guy came up from the audience and pressed a button at the side of the board. The writing surface scrolled off to the side and a printout emerged from a machine in the corner.
The tactile experience sounds amazinf
We had a few of those years ago. It kind of worked but was also another device that you had to understand how to load paper or work through error conditions.
Techies and magic - hours of entertainment. Like cats and string :-)
I bought this 4'x3' Black Glass Board back in 2017 for $150! I write with white and neon colored liquid chalk markers and it's the best!
Here: https://a.co/d/hlrwPHQ
Enjoy it.
Tracking-free link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JOW6EGY
Wow! Do you then use white board erasers, chalk board erasers, paper towels, microfiber clothes, squeegees ;P, or what do you use then to erase?
Is there a particular advantage to getting the black version of this versus the ultra white version?
Ditto, same size, same thing (different brand), cheaper pickup ~ $70 (2024) "Magnetic Glass Board", chose black since it seemed less NPC.
Lots of cool pens on Temu - https://www.temu.com/search_result.html?search_key=Liquid%20...
Also cool. Looks great under a UV light too.
In a previous apartment, I painted a wall with several coats of blackboard (chalkboard) paint and then used fancy chalk on it, and a chalkboard eraser. Worked pretty well. The landlord even let me keep it up when I moved out, because the next tenants liked it.
We did this when we renovated. Had a kitchen wall section chalk board painted for notes, as well as a much larger section of the kids play room wall.
The notes was useful space on the kitchen and the playroom one the kids just loved to doodle. Their friends were always impressed and loved to be able to leave a tag or doodle on it when they came over.
We tried a layer of magnetic paint too, but it didn’t work nearly as well.
I'm of the generation that had student labs (with eye-wateringly expensive computers) full of chalk dust. Chalk dust everywhere. I still have chalk dust trauma I guess and even with better housekeeping habits I'd think twice about it. Doodling opportunity so very tempting though.
I write directly on the drywall, it's a lifehack that forces you to accept your past ideas and thoughts.
Once, long ago, I wrote some pithy, earth-shattering thoughts onto the wall while extremely high, and was self-satisfied at the gift I'd bestowed upon the world. The next day I had no idea or recollection of what it meant, and on reflection I wish it had been on a white board and not wallpaper.
When I was renovating my kitchen, I left some notes on the wall before putting up cabinets. A little treat for the next renovator.
...Permanently? You just keep everything indefinitely?
Until I move out yea
Your comment reminds me of my 18~25 year old self when I never renewed an apartment lease as a way to avoid cleaning my bathtub.
It was my least favorite childhood chore and I’m mid40s and still haven’t done it once myself. At this point it’s petty but I refuse to do it on principle alone, to keep the streak alive
One finds the most interesting people on HN
Different purpose than a whiteboard, because its much smaller and not really for sharing with a group. But I've used a Rocketbook 'reusable notebook' off and on for a while for any random notes at my desk. I used to just fill up a whiteboard by my desk with random notes instead of wasting paper, but now I scribble things in the Rocketbook instead. You write in it with an erasable pen, and can clean the pages off with a bit of water and a cloth.
I just flip to a blank page and write down anything i need. Then once in a while i go through and erase all the pages and start fresh again. I like that i can write very small and detailed - unlike with a whiteboard. But it also isn't a complete waste of paper. (and its still physical, unlike taking notes on an iPad)
there’s the one you can microwave too, the rocketbook wave iirc?
It’s a neat concept, but I think the microwaveable ones have a shorter longevity. They say it can only be microwaved around 5 times. I suspect they just work because when heated, the erasable ink becomes invisible.
On the normal pocketbooks, the ink actually washes off with just a bit of water. It’s very similar to a whiteboard in that regard. I know I’ve cleaned out my notebook more than five times, it’s still basically good as new. Except one page where I accidentally used a normal non-erasable pen.
Slightly off topic, but if you ever write on a whiteboard with a sharpie, you can write over the text with an erasable marker and then wipe it away.
This works because the solvent base for the ink is alcohol, so a much simpler method that doesn't waste ink is to use a small spray bottle of isopropyl alcohol. Ideally 99/100%, if you can get it. (Try eBay.)
This doubles up as an effective whiteboard cleaner.
Hand sanitiser is great for this. A dab of whisky on a paper towel also works well.
Yeah, I'm mostly posting this for folks who might not have access to ISO, but if you do, that is the best solution.
If you want to remove Sharpie, use IPA...isopropyl alcohol...India pale ale remains useless.
Isopropyl removes all inks and glues. It's incredible.
It's also fantastic to wash your hands with when doing cell and tissue cultures and trying to avoid contamination.
Ideally used to sterilize while gloves are on your hands… be mindful of your skin microbiome!
It's also similarly great for killing braincells when auto-applied orally
No. You're thinking of ethyl alcohol. If you ingest isopropyl alcohol you're gonna have a bad day.
Oh and make sure the label on the ethyl alcohol does not contain the word "DENATURED." That's code for "tastes like shit and makes you sick."
Isopropanol is relatively safe to drink in small amounts (single digit mL). It's only about 2x stronger than ethanol, and your liver metabolizes it to acetone, which is safe.
Denatured alcohol contains methanol, which is way more dangerous since you metabolise it to formaldehyde.
Source: I unknowingly got drunk on IPA fumes before work one time and wrote some really bad code
Methanol is indeed quite toxic but it is not the only denaturant. There are many others [0]. When methanol is used as a denaturant, special labeling is required [1]. Most of the denatured ethyl alcohol I've seen in pharmacies in recent years has not contained methanol but merely bittering agents, because methanol is so dangerous.
[0] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2003-title27-vol1/xm...
[1] https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2016-20712/p-284
Well, if the stated goal was to kill brain cells, I'm sure either will get you there
Your pale ale clearly isn't strong enough!
I second that. I discovered that IPA dissolves sharpie resin when doing DIY circuitboards via toner transfer. When you do toner transfer, you can use a Sharpie to fix up imperfections in the artwork before doing the etching. After the copper is etched, you remove the ink.
The first time I did that, I tried IPA first, and that took off the Sharpie touch ups, not doing anything to the laser printer toner.
Next up, acetone: swoosh, clean copper in one wipe.
I use hand sanitizer, so an alcoholic beverage might work, although it's significantly diluted.
You can do the same with a Sharpie. All inks contain a solvent for their pigment, so you can use the same marker to remove the same ink. Just mark over it and immediately wipe it off.
Even better, sunscreen (I just use old, expired ones). Don’t know why, but it does a great job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard
What would be the fancy modern buyable version of this?
Keeping it classic, nice. How do you manage the dust?
1) Try a few different "dustless" chalk brands. Pick the one that's the least dusty. It probably won't write as nicely. 2) Erase with a damp cloth, not a dry felt eraser. 3) Use a blackboard with relatively low surface roughness. It won't write as nicely.
Perhaps with multiple vacuums attached on the bezels.
Crayola make dry erase crayons. No fumes, cool colors
Last year I discovered big crayons for children that you erase with water. They are awesome.
I do not know brands in the US but in France this would be something like https://amzn.eu/d/7L7p2Cd
I use them on various surfaces, they work best on whiteboards but are all great on windows (and you look cool then).
The only small drawback is that you cannot erase a small mistake with your finger (out au least it is not that great).
I love them and got some for all my teams.
I have a bunch of these kinds of kid's drawing tablets lying around. They're the closest thing I have find do far to digital paper. https://amzn.eu/d/4gsa3pc
I recently learned whiteboards can also use wet erase markers. This has the benefit of not getting utterly destroyed if you graze it slightly.
Me too! Also, whiteboard tape exists: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NBL3UMU . I've started using it on storage bins (easier to get over the mental hurdle of labeling when I don't have to worry about the label changing later), and homeprod network switches (I'm terrible at recording port assignments electronically).
If you use glass, whiteboard material / laminate (formica eg) you can use any kind of marker and then dissolve it with alcohol or acetone.
> some kind of magnetic board
Sounds like a giant Etch-a-sketch?
There are these small electric blackboards that you can push a button to reset: https://myboogieboard.com/pages/blackboard-smart
I wonder if they make a giant wall mountable version?
I have a product labeled Boogieboard that I bought on a whim at Costco years back. I want to say it was less that $10? Really simple, no connectivity, it does really seem like an etch-a-sketch with a stylus instead of knobs. Stuck it on the fridge with tacky-tack and it’s been going strong for many years. About the size of A5 (or half an 8-1/2 x 11 piece of paper).
EDIT: looking at the link above, it is called the Jot and sells for $18. Still made apparently.
I have a couple boogie boards, and they're very handy for making notes or single-session scribbles, but their major drawback is the "all or nothing" reset.
I don't think I realized how often I need to erase or update a small section of a list or diagram without erasing the entire thing until using these.
https://smartboardandbeyond.com/products/boogie-board-55-wal...
This is 55inch one
Get a real blackboard made of slate and quality chalk. Much higher resolution than markers.
I'm glad they work for you, but out of curiosity, does anyone else find... just about everything about blackboards unappealing? The feel of chalk scratching on the board, the sound, drawing the characters (making curves feels awkward to me), even the chalk dust. I prefer whiteboards in almost every way except for markers drying out. It's one of those things I've kinda never understood why so many people prefer chalkboards.
Scratchy chalk is low-quality chalk or poor technique. Every writing instrument has its own techniques. Like how fountain pens work better at a lower angle and lower pressure, and ball-point pens work better at a higher pressure and the angle doesn’t matter so much.
Or poor quality boards. I know I didn’t use a real slate board until later in university and it makes a world of difference. Really you need both, great chalk and a great board. But when you have both the feel is superb :)
I enjoy those sensations, presumably because it’s associated with solving problems. I recognize that objectively they’re slightly unpleasant, although nowhere near as bad as other things people learn to enjoy like cigarettes.
But on the other hand, it dries out your hands!
We have electronic touchscreen+stylus boards on the walls in some meeting rooms at work.
Of course, you could always use a black board instead.
They do still make chalk...
Or, you could go with the $50,000 IoT board so Amazon and Goggle can scrape everything you draw in your meetings (they're already scraping your email anyway).
I used a piece of plexiglass spray painted white on the back with Sharpie markers. Nail polish remover and towels cleans it. I didn't like being able to accidentally rub off parts
in my experience, there are whiteboards... and there are ceramic whiteboards. anything non-ceramic is going to gunk up over time and will never become completely clean.
the ceramic ones are awesome because they erase effortlessly and resist the inevitable ghosting and staining that will happen with the cheaper ones. they are super durable and will last a lifetime.
the only downside is they are reallllly heavy and require a more thoughtful installation.
How about a glass panel with the back painted white? You can write with any kind of marker on that, including permanent, and it will come off.
White boards, or rather the markers, are barely legible.
I'm using a glass board with glass markers. Good contrast, good colors and the board lasts forever.
Ipad pro as well as pen and paper.
If you can do VR whiteboard it's probably the best option.
I dont understand why anyone would use chalk.
I recommend chalk. Its a little dusty but works great.
Seems to be nontoxic and low in the chemicals and plastic department.
Chalk. Even comes in colors.
I'm not joking.
Also it's actually gypsum. Same material plaster and plasterboard is made from.
Are you sure about that? According to Wikipedia both gypsum and calcite are used. Apparently, gypsum is used for colored chalk, and calcite is used for white chalk:
> Chalk sticks are produced in white and in various colours, especially for use with blackboards. White chalk sticks are made mainly from calcium carbonate derived from mineral chalk or limestone, while coloured chalk sticks are made from calcium sulphate in its dihydrate form, CaSO4·2H2O, derived from gypsum.[6][7] Chalk sticks containing calcium carbonate typically contain 40–60% of CaCO3 (calcite).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard#Chalk_sticks
Wikipedia cites the following articles:
[6] "How chalk is made – material, making, used, processing, procedure, product, industry". madehow.com. Retrieved February 17, 2021.
[7] Corazza, M.; Zauli, S.; Pagnoni, A.; Virgili, A. (2012). "Allergic contact dermatitis caused by metals in blackboard chalk: a case report". Acta Dermato-Venereologica. 92 (4): 436–437. doi:10.2340/00015555-1296. PMID 22367154.
The first of these seems more relevant... I'm not quite sure what the second citation adds.
I wouldn't put it in my home office because of the dust. After a week, you're leaving footprints around the house.
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