The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
But as someone who's tried many varieties of Japonica, there is a difference between the best Japan-grown rice and non-speciality rice grown elsewhere, as well as a difference between fresh (Japanese enjoy eating new rice, which is different from many rice-eating cultures) and old rice.
I pay somewhere around AUD$14/kg for Japanese rice in Australia, but I also don't eat it that often and I'm not that price sensitive.
But also, the average Japanese eats around 1kg of uncooked rice per week. That's ¥800 at the rates in the article (~USD$300/year). Japan's cost of living is generally pretty low, but I doubt +/- $100/year is effecting many people.
At least for supermarkets around me they _only_ sell Japanese rice. You’d have to buy online or drive out which doesn’t work for vast majority of old population.
Also as an East Asian I can somewhat understand reluctance to change rice. It’s just such a staple in your daily life. If I had eaten one type of rice for my entire life (and the price of the rice has remained stable for the last 40 years) and suddenly I can’t afford that type of rice, it would be a shock.
There are so many restaurants that talk about using the best rice in Japan.
On asking them where it comes from and it's always either local to the restaurant, or to the prefecture the owner grew up in.
There's a lot of local patriotism for rice in Japan, I even find it admirable most of the time.
Rice price is obviously important and probably linked pretty highly with inflation numbers in Japan. It's price is currently being artificially manipulated higher by JA, and that sucks. But I think ultimately most of these articles and even the local discourse with other Japanese is just a socially acceptable topic to grumble about.
Rice patriotism in Japan is just result of politically motivated and generally unpopular gen-tan policy spectacularly backfiring. The price is not artificially inflated, at least not by JA, it's just result of forcing rice to be uneconomical in the market where people just buys rice no matter what. As supply is decreased artificially and price increases in response, unit price rose and so did quality. As result of quality increased artificially although indirectly, imports unaffected by local market further lost competitiveness.
I bet Japan's going to be internally forced to expand rice exports, not imports. Farmers must pay bills or else they go away, and people aren't going to eat imports. So farmers has to stay by either completely subsidized a la defense production, or by scaling out at paces permanently exceeding inflation. Maybe both. Extra production has to go somewhere but population is on decline, so it has to go somewhere beyond the seas.
Unless iPhone moment happens and the country's hit by vastly superior rice, which iOS was - iPhone had worse hardware with worse integration than any of local phones back then, but UI/UX was literally 5-10 years ahead of everything else, and it completely replaced the entire Japanese phone market helped by blatantly illegal marketing tactics. That's not happening so far with rice.
Japan's population peaked decades ago. Surely it can't be a mere lack of land that drives the cost of rice. That would have been worse in the 1990s. Plus, rice is a super high-yield crop and Japan has rich volcanic soils. Many countries have higher populations densities and export food (the Netherlands, Bangladesh). More likely it's the cost of farm labor driving up prices.
Perhaps one strategy would be to find some economic use for the byproduct biomass from rice farming. Bioplastic is going to be the highest value-add; biofuel, except possibly aviation fuel, has a low price ceiling. This could effectively subsidize rice production without drawing from the public till.
An interesting thing about fertility rates is that they determine not only population, but the exact young:old ratios, approximate average age, and more! Imagine you have a fertility rate of 1. That means each successive generation will be half as large as the one before it. As humans have a peak fertility window of ~20 years, this ends up being the time of a generation, making it really easy to model.
Imagine you have exactly 1 newborn in the latest generation. Then the prior generation must be composed of 2 ~20 year olds, 4 ~40 year olds, 8 ~60 year olds and 16 ~80 year olds. So you end up with a total ratio of 24:7 old (defined as 60+):young and a 24:6 or 4:1 retirement:working age (after we remove the 1 newborn). By contrast a fertility rate of 2 means each generation is the same size as the one prior so you end up with a 1:1 retirement:working ratio. And with positive population growth you have an exponential system with more workers than retirees
This is one of the main mechanisms through which fertility collapse drives economic collapse. Not only does your population shrink far more quickly than most realize, but you end up with the overwhelming majority of your remaining population being elderly. So yes - you have fewer people consuming resources, but you also have exponentially fewer people working those resources.
> Surely it can't be a mere lack of land that drives the cost of rice.
It's not, it's a consequence of some land reform policies that made sense after WW2 to take power away from the rich, but has meant that economies of scale for rice farming has suffered later on.
The median rice farm owner in Japan only is in charge of single digit acres, whereas in EU/US it's like tens or hundreds of acres. So it's harder to justify mechanisation since the economies of scale don't work out and the children of farmers don't want to continue working the farm after their parents are no longer able to because the ceiling of what the farm can produce is low and economic and social prospects are better elsewhere.
That's without even getting in to the JA and the fact that a lot of these farmers are part time.
It's a really complicated issue without a simple fix or cause like labour costs. Realistically these farms are going to have to get consolidated, which is something that is happening, but slowly.
IIRC the were media reports that they were straight up controlling both market share and sales volumes for iPhone. At least price fixing, subsidy, and sales volume allegations were prosecuted and admitted by both authority and Apple.
> Also as an East Asian I can somewhat understand reluctance to change rice
I have deep Thai roots, and I don't think the same thing really exists there. Rice is just rice, and there are both old[0] and new[1] types of popular rice that are substantially different from the "standard" steamed white rice.
Ah really? My parents bought Korean rice in New Zealand even though it was more expensive. I do think there is some form of nationalism along with deep cultural connection to rice at least in Korea and Japan.
Interesting to find out Thai doesn’t have something similar.
I think it's only Aeon that is pushing imported rice. While I see them prop up everywhere lately, indeed if none in the area I guess it's not readily available. Where it is though it doesn't seem unpopular, at least it isn't stuck on shelves. When I first saw it disappear, I thought it may have been a failed experiment but was happy to see it restocked.
Fun fact: in feudal Japan, taxes and income were measured in koku of rice (approx 150 kg), which is roughly how much a person needed to sustain themselves for a year. The little plastic cup that comes with your rice cooker measures one gō, which is 1/1000th of a koku.
Interesting. I am assuming that is nominally "one ordinary peasant's rice consumption", not "enough rice to live on". One gō appears to be about 5 ounces/150 grams, and that is about 550 calories, or 25% of a nominal daily calorie need. One can quibble with the exact numbers - smaller stature Japanese feudal peasants, but heavier physical demands, etc.
It works out to 25% of the calorie need, ironically close to the amount supplied by beer in an estimate of a European medieval monastery.
Well Japanese peasants were also encouraged to live off of 'lesser' grains like millet, barley, and wheat. Let alone the other nutritionally imporant but non calorically-dense supplements like vegetables.
it's reasonable to assume that this represents the amount of rice japan should allocate per-peasant in a functioning economy with other food sources. it would be meaningless and absurd to develop a standard for the amount of rice one would need in a year if and only if rice was the sole food source in their universe. In fact I'd be willing to bet there's no amount of rice that would keep a person alive for a year if that's all they ate.
From what I've seen at the supermarket, cal-rose, rice from California does sell out and get restocked with reasonable quantity. While I can't be sure it's "average Japanese people" buying it I see no reason to believe otherwise. It's been shown on TV a few times too, the sure-fire average marketing in Japan.
I'm glad you've explained that because I genuinely thought it was being eaten raw. I guess it's more like they eat the _equivalent_ of 1kg of uncooked rice.
The grandparent poster used a strange way to word it - you dont normally call it uncooked rice in this context! It's like saying people eat 1kg of raw flour when they're talking about bread consumption.
> The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
Domestic rice is a national security concern, not a financial one. Being fed by another country, even an ally, can turn pear-shaped very quickly. Is it that hard to imagine Trump threatening to starve Japan if they don't bow to his demands?*
> But also, the average Japanese eats around 1kg of uncooked rice per week. That's ¥800 at the rates in the article (~USD$300/year). Japan's cost of living is generally pretty low, but I doubt +/- $100/year is effecting many people.
Why the doubt? The average price of rice literally doubled YoY. For families that can be hundreds of dollars per month (yen equivalent) that they have to pull out of thin air, and that's in a country where the median wage is half of Australia.
* Yes, Japan already imports over half of its food, but rice is where the government decided to draw the line in the sand.
You don't even need to consider an ally being a bad actor. When Ukraine was invaded, wheat prices (to name one) in Europe shot up. England in particular has fairly significant food security challenges.
I'm not sure tarrifs have a huge impact; Japan is Australia's largest buyer of rice, importing $63.8MUSD worth in 2023 per the OEC: https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/rice/reporter.... That's a lot of rice to buy, if it's more expensive and less desirable then domestic rice.
> The government imports 770,000 tons of rice tariff-free annually under its minimum access quota, and places up to 100,000 tons of that up for auction. Private-sector imports, which are separate from that framework, are subject to a tariff of 341 yen ($2.35) per kilogram, a measure intended to protect domestic producers. [1]
Since 1995 Japan has been forced by the WTO to import a certain amount of rice tariff-free every year. Much of it doesn't even go to Japanese consumers, but rather to animal feed and strategic reserves. Prior to 2024, virtually all imported rice in Japan was imported to satisfy this requirement. Presumably that also includes the $63M of rice imported from Australia in 2023.
The tariffs do indeed have a massive impact, and until recently it was very difficult for consumers to even find imported rice in supermarkets.
I see cal-rose for shy above 3000 yen. While I didn't grasp the details, I saw a news report which made it seems they've set up a quota (xx tons or something) of rice to be imported with almost no tariffs.
That sounds possible, I can get premium calrose at 4.5kg for 20$, which adjusted to be 5kg is like 3200 yen or it could be regular quality calrose marked up, I can get that for half the premium price so equivalent of 1600 yen.
> I pay somewhere around AUD$14/kg for Japanese rice in Australia
a 10kg bag of (AU-grown) koshihikari at Hanaromart (some Asian supermarket) is around 43 AUD right now IIRC. Could I tell the difference in blind tasting between it and just "normal" koshihikari off the shelf off a Japanese supermarket? Maybe, but maybe not. Not an argument for removing trade barriers, but the gap right now seems pretty stark.
I do feel like it's worth thinking about how you're saying 800 yen, but that might be per person. So for a 3-person family that's almost ~120k JPY per year. If you could cut that down to 90k JPY per year thats an extra 2500 JPY per month you can spend on food.
If you're the kind of person who only goes to the discount shops, an extra 2500 JPY per month can go a decent way on food. If you are on a pretty strict/limited food budget that 2500 JPY could go a long way.
Though of course like with eggs, etc, all food prices are just more obvious as well. And Japan has had really nasty inflation with energy + the weakening yen as well, so this is yet another thing that saps away at a budget where you're probably not saving that much to begin with.
As mentioned, I've done taste tests across various options and I can definitely tell the difference, which is why I pay more.
But as I also said, I can afford to pay more. I don't think the average Japanese is going to be effected. But as I mentioned, if you're budget conscious, not even considering non-Japanese rice is ridiculous.
> As mentioned, I've done taste tests across various options and I can definitely tell the difference, which is why I pay more.
Can you tell the difference between Japanese brands or only between Japanese and non Japanese origin rice?
Is rice a significant percentage of food cost in Japan? Coming from a culture that uses less rice, the cost of price verses the cost of protein makes it just about a rounding error when cooking.
Now butter on the other hand has just about become a luxury good in New Zealand when it was once cheap, plentiful and extremely high quality.
I can taste the difference between Japanese brands and, because we have a local Japanese grocer with various regional rice options, I get to eat the one I enjoy the most.
But in general, I’ve not found non-Japanese rice that tastes as good, although we don’t have much variety of non-Japanese Japonica around (I won’t get into the general homogenization issue of products in Australian supermarkets).
> Is rice a significant percentage of food cost in Japan?
At the height of rice prices, rice cost about the same per kg as domestic chicken thighs. That's a problem when rice is meant to be an affordable staple food.
> the cost of price verses the cost of protein makes it just about a rounding error when cooking
In the context of someone who is budget conscious typical meat prices likely place the vast majority of it entirely out of the question. Similarly a much larger proportion of calorie intake is likely to be made up by a nonperishable staple under those circumstances.
> The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
I live in Japan, and my girlfriend is an atypical Japanese that doesn't like rice that much. For her, the madness is that people here won't even consider other sources of carbs like pasta, potatoes, or bread.
There is this whole "It is not a proper meal unless there is a bowl of rice" kind of thinking. So you get rice with the potatoes that come with your Nikujaga, the mashed potatoes, steak and fried potatoes, etc. But then there is that completely arbitrary line that you do not get a
bowl of rice with your noodles (unless it is for dunking into the leftover soup of your Ramen or Tsukemen), pasta, burger, etc.
I love Japanese food culture to bits, but figuring out when a bowl of rice is vital for a meal to even be considered a meal and when it is not is still a mystery to me after observing my wife and in-laws for more than a decade. Having been taught the "food pyramid" [1] line of thinking as a child, it just makes no sense to this gaijin how we can not substitute one source of carbohydrates with another, but I suppose that is what culture is for you.
Yeah, I've seen a fair amount of "but what will we eat?!" Netsuke-clutching and like... Y'all already have a trend towards bread for breakfast and you love your wafu pasta. Do that a couple of times a week.
But it's Japan, so I imagine there's plenty of Showa who think all change is to be valiently fought and that not eating rice prevents you from being "proper" Japanese.
Normally when someone makes that kind of remarks, the subconscious intent is that we can further enrich rosters of lunch options with abundant Japanese purchasing power, than that we can actually replace rice with something more however rational. So it sort of amounts to modern day let them eat cakes quote - which wasn't crazy as it sounds with context at the time that cakes were supposed to be cheaper than plain breads, if it weren't for famine.
I recall watching a video on YouTube from the creator Paolo in Tokyo, and he mentioned that bread is now more popular than rice as a breakfast staple in Japan. Not sure how true it is though.
I live in Japan, and have lived here for the last 25 years. Yes, bread is far more popular for breakfast than rice is. If you go to a Japanese-style Inn, they will serve rice and fish and miso for a "traditional" breakfast, but at home, many people eat toast. There's been an increase in jams and spreads to put on toast, as well. My family here in Japan (I'm American, wife is Japanese, kids are both), we've always eaten bread and yogurt with milk nearly every single day.
PS -- We nearly always have rice with lunch and dinner, though. Japanese-grown. IMHO, it tastes very different from imported rice, and we HAVE tried.
Yes, it is, and no, it's very much to the Japanese taste.
There's no absence of non-rice main meals in Japan; Wafu pasta is an entire category of Japanese pasta dishes whose name literally means Japanese Style Pasta. Udon, Ramen and Soba abound, and Kansai in particular has a large number of Konamon, flour-based meals and snacks (resulting from Allied food aid after the bombings).
In some ways, the reaction to suggestions of swapping out rice are like that redneck uncle of yours who is mad his Cardiologist told him to cut down on red meat because "what else am I supposed to eat?!" even though his wife does all the cooking and they already have pork/chicken/fish 3 nights out of 7. It's an identity thing; in some ways to eat rice is to _be_ Japanese.
Yakisoba in traditional Japanese cuisine is noodles (“soba”), fried (“yaki”). Noodles varies but you can use ramen, udon, or others, and it’s stir fried up with vegetables, meats and a worcestershire based sauce and has been in japan since the 1930’s so like most things it means different things in different places.
But I’ve also seen “yakisoba” served up in US military mess halls and correctional institutions as little more than spaghetti noodles and hamburger as well.
It's probably like the price of gas in America. Easily seen, frequently bought so it causes anxiety. I know for some in America transportation is a serious concern, but there is also a lot of irrational reaction as well. After COVID, the person in the office next to mine was really upset that gas was like +$1. Like your house went up a quarter million in value and your mad because gas cost $5. You're never going to buy enough gas for it to matter. People are strange.
I used to live paycheck to paycheck, and when you live that way you're very sensitive to the price of gas since transportation is so vital. Gas going up by a dollar means you're now paying $60 to fill up your 15 gallon tank instead of $45. It's only $15 more, but if you don't make much in the first place and you already live paycheck to paycheck, it makes a huge difference and can cause a lot of stress watching that fuel gauge tick down.
This. When I was a bartender it wasn't uncommon for the last little bit of free cash I had at the beginning of the work week to be (barely) enough to get me to work
I've thought about carbon pricing. $100 a tonne sounds like a nice round number and it is in the ballpark where it is claimed that carbon capture and storage is affordable for coal burning power plants, oil refineries and such.
That comes to about $1 a gallon on gas, which I have two thoughts about: (1) I don't think it would change people's behavior that much -- gas has been $1 higher at times in the past and it didn't discourage me from driving and I'm not rich, I wouldn't consider spending more than $25k on a car whereas I know people who think nothing of buying an $80k truck. (2) I think Americans are highly sensitized to price increases right now and I think it would politically impossible to add $1/gallon to the price of gas, people would complain they are all out of spoons or it is the straw that breaks the camel's back or something. I think even 10 years ago it might have been easier, but right now, forget about it.
Their rice imports have risen by 2 orders of magnitude from 126 tons a year to over 10k tons already[1]
I don’t know if that is a drop in the bucket compared to their total consumption but their does appear to be an increasing appetite for foreign rice at the price points Japan is currently experiencing
Yea that totally fits in as this not really moving the needles, but at least on person in Japan has realized the market inefficiency and is capitalizing on it, which was main point to the comment I was replying to
Honestly, I think the average Japanese person wouldn't care that much after they tried it a few times. Especially upon noting the significant monthly savings. There's almost no imported rice even available here, and the propaganda of the superiority of domestic rice is quite powerful.
does it have the same sticky/wet/chewy texture that Japanese rice is famous for ?
the rice demand in Japan is extremely inelastic, they would rather eat less than consume foreign brands, and a lot of this comes from the trust they have in their industries.
hardly something to ridicule Japan or suggest they depart from their cultural values.
Saying good rice is sticky/wet/chewy is not accurate, because different strains serve different purposes. Some rice is meant to be chewy for sushi, others are better used for chazuke. It also used to be a regional thing for which strains were used for which cuisines, eg Hokkaido rice (onigiri) is different than Shikoku rice (sake)
The equivalent is like French wine fans saying no good wine could be produced in California. Obviously that wasn't true, and there was a lot of propaganda trying to lead people to believe that it was.
> does it have the same sticky/wet/chewy texture that Japanese rice is famous for ?
Calrose does but its not as good as the japanese rice I've had. Though I dont live in Japan and its possible only the better quality rices are exported?
The tv reporting on cal-rose did point out it's a bit less starchy, but still good. Similar reporting on the strategic reserve rice pointed out it's a bit more crunchy but still good. Someone on TV saying it's still good is pretty strong marketing and seems to be contributing to sales of imported rice. It'll be interesting to see how this goes once things settle down, especially if tariff-free rice quotas stick around.
The agricultural minister went on TV and ate rice from one and two years ago from the stockpile and reported they were all delicious. People were _maaaaaaaaad_.
What I want to know is, what's happening to all the Australian rice they do import? Are the statistics lumping all varieties together, are we only selling them Basmati?
I got Calrose about a month back for just over 3000 yen, which is slightly cheaper than the homegrown stuff. The issue is that a year ago the homegrown stuff was going for 1500 yen.
Oh, this brings back memories. I agree, the Japanese-grown rice in Japan is definitely different than the imported stuff.
I used to buy the rice grown in Fukushima prefecture because it was sold at a significant discount, during the short and financially disastrous period where I tried to immigrate there.
I don't think it is simple to eat a different rice under normal circumstances once you are used to it. In my case even something which is staple variety 200 km away
Maybe this is my millennial spoiled-for-choice nature, but that seems very strange to me. Though certainly it was (is?) similar in older generations here (overheard in the 80s: "pasta? no, no, we don't eat that foreign muck, it's meat and two veg in my house").
But if I lived somewhere where there are noticeable varieties of rice with local characters, it seems more fun to at least be open to trying them rather than stick with one for my life. Same with fresh pasta variations, olives etc in Italy, say.
Even for things like bread and coffee, I'll usually buy different kinds just to mix things up. Sourdough and Columbian today, rye and Ethiopian next week. I don't really have a "usual" of anything much that I'd be disturbed by changing to an alternative. Sometimes you get hits and occasionally misses, but that just means the you appreciate the hits more!
I'm curious if anyone has noticed a significant taste difference between Japonica rice and those imported from China, Korea, or Vietnam. Is one generally considered better tasting than the others?
> I'm curious if anyone has noticed a significant taste difference between Japonica rice and those imported from China, Korea, or Vietnam.
Yes, but it's like somewhere between mineral water and coffee. That is, most can tell the difference when directly compared, and may even prefer one over the other, but in many cases they are interchangeable.
> Is one generally considered better tasting than the others?
IMHO, no, but you tend to prefer the type you eat most often. Going back to the coffee analogy, most people have a roast / style they prefer, but few would claim that it's better.
Isn't that likely to be the other way around? You tend to eat most often that which you prefer?
Granted familiarity itself can play a role when considering something unfamiliar. But when it comes to both rice and coffee I purchase what I do because I significantly preferred it to the variants I tried before it.
I don't think so, because there are too many things, but not enough time in life to find out your true preferences for them all, so we all are (to varying degree of) indifferent to most things, and focus on only a few things we truly care about. For you, it's coffee and rice; for others, it may be monitor latency and keyboard switches.
I'd used coffee as an analogy, because it's something that almost everyone drinks, has many varieties, but most generally aren't too picky about it. Alas, I'd underestimated the population overlap between HN readers and picky coffee drinkers. :-P
I'll agree people exhibit varying degrees of indifference to things. But where I exhibit clear preferences it seems to me it's because I took genuine issue with whatever I tried before that.
That said, someone out there is purchasing the $1k gold audio cables and similar items. So I'll acknowledge that not all people fit that description.
my mum once bought "japanese rice" from the supermarket that tasted noticeably different (and worse). had to check the label, turns out it was made in Vietnam.
Not a Japanese person. But I regularly shop rice at a big asian supermarket. They offered a huge variety of US rice. However, I bought the Japanese one for twice the cost.
This has been a fun/interesting ordeal to watch from far away, though I think people in Japan are feeling a lot of pain right now.
In Hawaii we get a lot of imported Japanese rice mainly due to prevalence of Japanese daily groceries here. The typical grocery store (eg donki) carries more than a few strains of rice - koshihikari, hitomebore, nanatsuboshi, hatsushimo, etc. These make a noticeable difference for your spam musubi's, but especially for sushi. We usually rotate between whatever's the cheapest Japanese imported rice, around $30-40 for ~15lbs, but I would say most people here eat Japanese rice.
At the start of the War on Trade, we noticed marginal price increases on Japanese rice, but especially noticed steep discounts on California calrose, like $15 for 25lbs, which to me felt insane. The local specialty rice store just had to issue a price increase notice last week (https://the-rice-factory-honolulu.square.site), though this seems like it's more the rice shortage than tariffs.
Thoughts and prayers though to the Japanese who will have to eat South Korean rice, once the national reserve stock dwindles. Hope they make it through this struggle period.
There’s also the shipping problem: it’s actually cheaper to ship from overseas than the US, due to the Jones Act. There’s more ships available to go from East Asia than from California.
Some ammounts of hitomebore and koshihikari are produced in the US, I noticed that in Hmart you see product of USA under the same brand as the Japanese rice sometimes (especially recently) Calrose is a japonica rice though obviously produced mainly in California
Some amount of price control makes sense for strategic defensive reasons: Japan isn't self sufficient in food but like many other economies wants to ensure a viable farming sector.
I'm not sure this amount of price control is needed for that outcome. From TV I get the impression Japanese rice production is pretty intensive, but also small plot focussed so not as efficient as Australia where it's miles and miles of field to the horizon.
Maybe Japanese rice farmers are a protected species?
I'm confused, you open by noting the clear case for protection, and close by asking if protection describes the pricing. Maybe you perceive price controls and protection as separate? Price controls are a way to implement protection.
I'm asking how much. We have a ring-fenced dairy sector and ring fenced apple sector in Australia, biosecurity typically defines the protectionism. We don't pay this level of excess for milk, cheese and apples.
You could give direct income support to rice farmers and not recover it by insane pricing for Japanese rice.
If memory serves, the whale meat was virtually given away but by no means cost nothing to hunt, flense and store.
Farm subsidies does seem like the well tested approach. A lot of people in the US complain about them but I quite like having the option of some ridiculously low cost staples if I'm willing to forgo quality. Placing the burden on the taxpayers as a whole seems like the right approach for things like food security.
A better strategic defense would be domestic meat production, with feed that can be diverted to direct human consumption in an emergency. This would build in a large buffer due to the inefficiency of conversion of feed calories to meat calories.
Defensive domestic meat production can't work without other defensive measures. Otherwise, meat producers will just import cost-effective feed from other places, which will shrivel up once geopolitical instability hits.
Normally grazing means grass, which doesn't fit the strategic goal of "feed that can be diverted to direct human consumption in an emergency."
But yes, surely with some combination of taxes, subsidies and there being no better economic use for the land, you can get people to grow soy or barley and feed cattle with it.
I don't think just producing meat is enough to stabilize the price of food anywhere.
It helps, reducing most of the need for government intervention, but it doesn't seem to be enough.
Also, it's wasteful, at least from some point of view. You stabilize the price by consuming the excess, but you would still need to survive an eventual shortage. It may not be a huge problem worldwide, but Japan in particular doesn't have a lot of excess capacity.
If that's your entire goal, it's a bad one. You won't be able to get enough food for your defense during a shortage if the farmers get bankrupt during high-production years.
Rice in Japan is indeed weirdly expensive in the first place. Typical price is ~1 USD/lbs, but there's been a mysterious shortage and they're retailing at double the regular price.
The minister of agriculture right now, Shinjiro Koizumi, is the son of Jun-ichiro Koizumi with now-unpopular legacy of deregulating and wrecking the Japanese postal service among few other government functions. The minister is now advocating for deregulating rice anyhow in response to the ongoing situation, and the situation kind of stinks.
Sorry that it's probably not the kind of content appropriate at HN anyway. It's more of "uncovering Cold War history podcast" style of content except it's in live.
The previous minister was fired after they admitted they didn't have to experience the expensive rice because they were given free rice by farms in Japan
That is some bizarre obliviousness of privilege. I thought all of the more-equal-animals knew to keep quiet on the implicit bribes and other luxuries of their station.
It's rather quite the opposite in Japan. The "more-equal-animals" consistently make public completely oblivious remarks, only to apologize the following day and then (often) just go back to business as usual.
Yeah, their imperviousness to either progress or consequences is kind of incredible. An entire nation of collectivist, rule-following tendencies with a scummy layer of cartoonishly evil folks at the top, who for some reason seem immune from having to be decent people.
And yet, somehow, it's a generally pleasant country to live in with happy healthy people and opportunity. Though, that momentum Japan's been running on seems to be running out.
> now-unpopular legacy of deregulating and wrecking the Japanese postal service
Unpopular with who? In hindsight, the post office was a bandaid that needed to be ripped off before it became the next JNR. If he didn't do that, the tax payer would be on the hook for its final implosion, which is happening right now.
That's the perfect setting for the "Mom can we have X ? No, we have X at home" meme.
Otherwise USA rice is imported in Japan, as well as other countries' and is indeed way cheaper, but not desirable and people aren't literally starving either.
California does make good rice. Japan is just hyper protectionist with extremely high import taxes on rice. They don't get imported because of this tax. The US produces both lower quality and high quality rice, as you might expect of an enormous country that exports half its rice. This is why prices remain high. Do you think someone who is poor would not buy cheaper rice that had 90% the quality if they could?
In fact the US produces plenty of Japanese rice (Japonica)
> In fact the US produces plenty of Japanese rice (Japonica)
Indeed, I bought some and it was good. Italy also grows Japanese strains and it also of pretty good quality. Those are not cheap either, though. I'm assuming that's not the Costco rice parent was referring.
> This is why prices remain high.
It's complicated, and no single factor explains it all. Even singling out importing rice, Japan has better options than the US (the SEA region is a much more logical source for instance)
On the "it's complicated" part, believe it or not, Japan gov is/was actively restricting rice production as a long term strategy.
> Do you think someone who is poor would not buy cheaper rice that had 90% the quality if they could?
That's ignoring all the other options, in particular wheat (bread, pasta, noodles etc.), which can be cheaper than cheap rice. It doesn't match the cliche, but Japan has steadily included wheat as a staple over the years.
Yeah, as someone who started with Costco rice and slowly moved up the quality chain, there is a clear difference in taste between even average Japanese rice and most Costco rice. It would be interesting to see a price/quality comparison between the U.S. and Japanese Costcos though.
This is one of these case where cross-country comparison might bring little relevant information.
Another example could be wine sold at US Cosco vs French Costco. It would be an indicator of something, but I'd personally be lost if I had to interpret it in regards to wine trends in France in general.
Snobs will tell you yes, but Kokuho Rose is a California grown sushi rice that's good enough to be served over imported Japanese rice at Japanese restaurants. Really disappointing that the farm
is closing up shop.
Speculating from online comments around it and from looking at bags of Calrose rice, they seem to be few decades behind in cultivation techniques and selective breeding improvements. The grains look smaller, less shiny and more yellowy. but technically they should be of the same strain.
Calrose, the primary rice grown in California is a Japonica, its just Japanese rice grown in America. Tamanishiki, which is one of the high grade sushi rices is grown in the US and Japan
Surprising, because while its widely available in California it seems to be a tiny minority of available rice. A search I did says it is 80% of California's crop, so presumably a lot of it is exported?
It doesn't serve every culinary purpose and most California grocery shoppers are not Japanese. You wouldn't make Moros y Cristianos with it. You wouldn't make Hoppin' John with it. It's no good for your Indian menu. It isn't really what you'd serve beside fried chicken.
There is no "best rice" any more than there is "best pants".
Jasmine rice can NOT be used for sushi! It's not sticky enough to hold together. The fact that it's not sticky makes it good for fried rice, not for sushi.
In my experience it's just barely sticky enough for sushi provided you don't wash it but I don't think the texture is right for that usage. I prefer it for most things though.
might be confusing mushy with sticky - the individual grains of sushi rice is intact and whole. Mushy rice is a grain that has too absorbed too much water, and is burst.
Because the poster's tone implies that American Calrose rice is inedible vs the superior Japanese rice. That's simply not true, and a bit reductionist.
I also wasn’t following. I primarily eat US rice. The marginally better rice from Japan I might buy if I’m going to make sushi at home, but that’s just because I’d be investing so much time and energy already, might as well spend a few bucks more on a slightly better rice.
I found a TikTok which showed rice in a Japanese Costco. A calrose variety American grown rice (Legrande Family rice) in the Japanese Costco was 2998 yen for 5KG. Must be tariffs causing the price to be so high.
People who eat mostly rice are picky about the rice they eat.
Golden Rice 2 was on the market for about five years in the Philippines before it got banned. If anybody had wanted to grow it or eat it it could have been a different story. I was talking to a genetic engineer a few weeks ago who said that the sensory qualities weren't that great. Nothing would have stopped advocates in the US from planting a few acres and selling bags of it (it's approved and all) but had they done so it would have put the lie to the idea that the developers were being persecuted like Prometheus. I don't think it was anywhere near the threat that its opponents said it was but it was nowhere near the boon that its promoters said it was.
Premium Tamanishiki (a type of premium sushi rice) is grown in the US and Japan, the US just produces a lot of types of rice. Japonica is a category of rice that includes Calrose for example which is grown primarily in California and is definitely an "American" rice given that it founded the California rice industry
Perhaps because of factual errors (O. s. japonica is not only the same species, but the same subspecies), and pointlessly negative personal opinion making up the rest of your comment.
Calrose is perfectly fine if you are looking for japanese grown rice replacement in the US. Same 'Oryza sativa subsp. japonica', just a different cultivar. It's the closest thing to Koshihikari but cheaper and widely available. Actually I'd say it's the best overall rice you can get not grown in Japan.
The "problem" is that you won't find rice like Yumepirika, Akitakomachi, Tsuyahime, or Nanatsuboshi (just a few example of my favorites) anywhere outside of Japan. Even Italy has japonica rice fields but it's a different class all together.
Calrose is quite different than most Japanese rice, since it's a medium grain. If you've grown up eating rice in Japan, it's instantly noticeable. You can buy California grown Koshihikari now on Amazon, which is a much better substitute.
Akitakomachi is grown in California. It's what Lundberg Sushi Rice is.
Calrose is medium-grain, but Koshihikari itself is grown in California as is a short-grain hybrid with Calrose called Calhikari. Sasanishiki is also being grown.
That method is for long-grain rice used in other parts of Asia, simply unfit for Japanese rice(or vice versa). It's just their highly British form of humor and customary jest.
I'd suggest Brits ban full leaved teas in favor of microwaved teabags while at it.
Parboiling and draining rice has been a long-running European joke. Frenches do it as well. It absolutely ruin all short grains. It's a cooking method specifically for long grain rice as used in South Asian cooking, for which steaming would be wrong. And that is the point.
Why would people purposefully ruin their food to make a joke? I sincerely doubt entire nations of people cook their food, purposefully ruining it, then laugh over the fact.
"Oh that rice was terrible! Let's cook it that way again!"
Yet you've attested this twice now, and in a thread discussing how to remove deadly arsenic from rice.
You seem to want to discredit this study. You've claimed the study was false, was made up in jest.
It's not some weird joke.
Whatever you're trying to say, please don't do it by trying to discredit something designed to save lives. It's uncool.
Something about this study is a bit odd. Why does the white rice cooked without rinsing or draining have less arsenic than the raw rice? Is it dissolving then escaping as steam? If so, it seems like the drying step of the experiment screws up the interpretation of the results. If not, conservation of species mass is violated somehow.
The only thing I could think of, was that the water used was not entirely absorbed during cooking. So even the UA sample had excess water disposed of at the end.
They talk about the lid being open, but that seems not plausible for the amount shown.
>The PBA method involves parboiling the rice in pre-boiled water for five minutes before draining and refreshing the water, then cooking it on a lower heat to absorb all the water.
The same draining step that removes arsenic also removes starch that's necessary for the traditional sticky texture of Japanese rice. You'll end up with rice that's difficult to eat with chopsticks. But it's great for making fried rice, especially if you replace the final absorption step with steaming, because all the grains end up well separated.
The use of rBGH is approved in the United States. However, many grocery store chains don’t carry milk from cows treated with rBGH. A United States Department of Agriculture survey conducted in 2014 found that fewer than 1 in 6 cows (15%) were being injected with rBGH.
Your comments in this subthread are against the guidelines. Issues of food safety and environmental externalities are important, and thus need to be discussed in a respectful and earnest way, not an inflammatory and combative one. Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future, notably these ones:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
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Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.
I would say the downvotes are primarily because you are inferring a political purpose to the OP that isn't in evidence, and railing against it in a way that appears simply off topic.
"So, if I may be editorial as a Canadian: No." is a strange, nonsensical way to respond to a post titled "Price of rice in Japan falls below ¥4k per 5kg".
Complaining about it and sarcastically ascribing ideological positions to downvoters is probably not helping, either.
See the top comment on this thread. It’s not nonsensical. It’s refuting the spirit of the conversation so far.
As for pesticides US vs Canada:
Chlorpyrifos
Neonicotinoids
Ractopamine
All being phased out or banned up north. And much more restricted in EU/Internationally. While US use seems to me to be rampant.
Japanese rice costs more _because it is better_. And especially because it’s known by laypersons to be better. If any of the commenters here had any authority because perhaps they could claim they’ve spent a bunch of time in Japan like I have? I’d respect that.
And indeed, we Canadians are subject to politics about our supply management on dairy and poultry. It’s not just there to protect business. It’s there to protect health as far as my contemporaries are concerned.
Japan's the fourth largest economy in the world and, given how cheap rice is, it being 1x, 5x or even 10x average I'm sure is insignificant to 95%+ of people.
For perspective, it's about 2x what you'd pay in a UK supermarket. What's the big deal?
"rice" and "meal" are synonyms in Japanese language. Food in day-to-day Japanese cooking mostly consider what and how to pair with rice off the cooker. And "the food" is suddenly costing double. It is a big deal.
Its been progressively becoming more expensive for the last 18 months. And Japanese wages are the same as the 90's and they have millions of pensioners that can't absorb a higher price.
The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
But as someone who's tried many varieties of Japonica, there is a difference between the best Japan-grown rice and non-speciality rice grown elsewhere, as well as a difference between fresh (Japanese enjoy eating new rice, which is different from many rice-eating cultures) and old rice.
I pay somewhere around AUD$14/kg for Japanese rice in Australia, but I also don't eat it that often and I'm not that price sensitive.
But also, the average Japanese eats around 1kg of uncooked rice per week. That's ¥800 at the rates in the article (~USD$300/year). Japan's cost of living is generally pretty low, but I doubt +/- $100/year is effecting many people.
At least for supermarkets around me they _only_ sell Japanese rice. You’d have to buy online or drive out which doesn’t work for vast majority of old population.
Also as an East Asian I can somewhat understand reluctance to change rice. It’s just such a staple in your daily life. If I had eaten one type of rice for my entire life (and the price of the rice has remained stable for the last 40 years) and suddenly I can’t afford that type of rice, it would be a shock.
There are so many restaurants that talk about using the best rice in Japan.
On asking them where it comes from and it's always either local to the restaurant, or to the prefecture the owner grew up in.
There's a lot of local patriotism for rice in Japan, I even find it admirable most of the time.
Rice price is obviously important and probably linked pretty highly with inflation numbers in Japan. It's price is currently being artificially manipulated higher by JA, and that sucks. But I think ultimately most of these articles and even the local discourse with other Japanese is just a socially acceptable topic to grumble about.
Rice patriotism in Japan is just result of politically motivated and generally unpopular gen-tan policy spectacularly backfiring. The price is not artificially inflated, at least not by JA, it's just result of forcing rice to be uneconomical in the market where people just buys rice no matter what. As supply is decreased artificially and price increases in response, unit price rose and so did quality. As result of quality increased artificially although indirectly, imports unaffected by local market further lost competitiveness.
I bet Japan's going to be internally forced to expand rice exports, not imports. Farmers must pay bills or else they go away, and people aren't going to eat imports. So farmers has to stay by either completely subsidized a la defense production, or by scaling out at paces permanently exceeding inflation. Maybe both. Extra production has to go somewhere but population is on decline, so it has to go somewhere beyond the seas.
Unless iPhone moment happens and the country's hit by vastly superior rice, which iOS was - iPhone had worse hardware with worse integration than any of local phones back then, but UI/UX was literally 5-10 years ahead of everything else, and it completely replaced the entire Japanese phone market helped by blatantly illegal marketing tactics. That's not happening so far with rice.
Japan's population peaked decades ago. Surely it can't be a mere lack of land that drives the cost of rice. That would have been worse in the 1990s. Plus, rice is a super high-yield crop and Japan has rich volcanic soils. Many countries have higher populations densities and export food (the Netherlands, Bangladesh). More likely it's the cost of farm labor driving up prices.
Perhaps one strategy would be to find some economic use for the byproduct biomass from rice farming. Bioplastic is going to be the highest value-add; biofuel, except possibly aviation fuel, has a low price ceiling. This could effectively subsidize rice production without drawing from the public till.
An interesting thing about fertility rates is that they determine not only population, but the exact young:old ratios, approximate average age, and more! Imagine you have a fertility rate of 1. That means each successive generation will be half as large as the one before it. As humans have a peak fertility window of ~20 years, this ends up being the time of a generation, making it really easy to model.
Imagine you have exactly 1 newborn in the latest generation. Then the prior generation must be composed of 2 ~20 year olds, 4 ~40 year olds, 8 ~60 year olds and 16 ~80 year olds. So you end up with a total ratio of 24:7 old (defined as 60+):young and a 24:6 or 4:1 retirement:working age (after we remove the 1 newborn). By contrast a fertility rate of 2 means each generation is the same size as the one prior so you end up with a 1:1 retirement:working ratio. And with positive population growth you have an exponential system with more workers than retirees
This is one of the main mechanisms through which fertility collapse drives economic collapse. Not only does your population shrink far more quickly than most realize, but you end up with the overwhelming majority of your remaining population being elderly. So yes - you have fewer people consuming resources, but you also have exponentially fewer people working those resources.
> Surely it can't be a mere lack of land that drives the cost of rice.
It's not, it's a consequence of some land reform policies that made sense after WW2 to take power away from the rich, but has meant that economies of scale for rice farming has suffered later on.
The median rice farm owner in Japan only is in charge of single digit acres, whereas in EU/US it's like tens or hundreds of acres. So it's harder to justify mechanisation since the economies of scale don't work out and the children of farmers don't want to continue working the farm after their parents are no longer able to because the ceiling of what the farm can produce is low and economic and social prospects are better elsewhere.
That's without even getting in to the JA and the fact that a lot of these farmers are part time.
It's a really complicated issue without a simple fix or cause like labour costs. Realistically these farms are going to have to get consolidated, which is something that is happening, but slowly.
Japan's population peaked decades ago.
less farmers, hardly any automation, people moved to cities
> blatantly illegal marketing tactics
That sounds interesting - what did they do?
IIRC the were media reports that they were straight up controlling both market share and sales volumes for iPhone. At least price fixing, subsidy, and sales volume allegations were prosecuted and admitted by both authority and Apple.
> Also as an East Asian I can somewhat understand reluctance to change rice
I have deep Thai roots, and I don't think the same thing really exists there. Rice is just rice, and there are both old[0] and new[1] types of popular rice that are substantially different from the "standard" steamed white rice.
Maybe someone who’s Thai-Thai could chime in
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutinous_rice
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riceberry
Ah really? My parents bought Korean rice in New Zealand even though it was more expensive. I do think there is some form of nationalism along with deep cultural connection to rice at least in Korea and Japan.
Interesting to find out Thai doesn’t have something similar.
It's surprising to me, because out of all the rices, I feel that Thai jasmine rice is the one that stands out the most.
I think it's only Aeon that is pushing imported rice. While I see them prop up everywhere lately, indeed if none in the area I guess it's not readily available. Where it is though it doesn't seem unpopular, at least it isn't stuck on shelves. When I first saw it disappear, I thought it may have been a failed experiment but was happy to see it restocked.
Fun fact: in feudal Japan, taxes and income were measured in koku of rice (approx 150 kg), which is roughly how much a person needed to sustain themselves for a year. The little plastic cup that comes with your rice cooker measures one gō, which is 1/1000th of a koku.
Interesting. I am assuming that is nominally "one ordinary peasant's rice consumption", not "enough rice to live on". One gō appears to be about 5 ounces/150 grams, and that is about 550 calories, or 25% of a nominal daily calorie need. One can quibble with the exact numbers - smaller stature Japanese feudal peasants, but heavier physical demands, etc.
It works out to 25% of the calorie need, ironically close to the amount supplied by beer in an estimate of a European medieval monastery.
Well Japanese peasants were also encouraged to live off of 'lesser' grains like millet, barley, and wheat. Let alone the other nutritionally imporant but non calorically-dense supplements like vegetables.
it's reasonable to assume that this represents the amount of rice japan should allocate per-peasant in a functioning economy with other food sources. it would be meaningless and absurd to develop a standard for the amount of rice one would need in a year if and only if rice was the sole food source in their universe. In fact I'd be willing to bet there's no amount of rice that would keep a person alive for a year if that's all they ate.
Divided by 1000, not 365. So they eat just shy of 3 such portions a day.
From what I've seen at the supermarket, cal-rose, rice from California does sell out and get restocked with reasonable quantity. While I can't be sure it's "average Japanese people" buying it I see no reason to believe otherwise. It's been shown on TV a few times too, the sure-fire average marketing in Japan.
> the average Japanese eats around 1kg of uncooked rice per week.
That's gonna be crunchy
just in case people dont understand, the dry weight of rice is what gets measured.
I'm glad you've explained that because I genuinely thought it was being eaten raw. I guess it's more like they eat the _equivalent_ of 1kg of uncooked rice.
The grandparent poster used a strange way to word it - you dont normally call it uncooked rice in this context! It's like saying people eat 1kg of raw flour when they're talking about bread consumption.
The shittiest bowl of GrapeNuts ever.
> The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
Domestic rice is a national security concern, not a financial one. Being fed by another country, even an ally, can turn pear-shaped very quickly. Is it that hard to imagine Trump threatening to starve Japan if they don't bow to his demands?*
> But also, the average Japanese eats around 1kg of uncooked rice per week. That's ¥800 at the rates in the article (~USD$300/year). Japan's cost of living is generally pretty low, but I doubt +/- $100/year is effecting many people.
Why the doubt? The average price of rice literally doubled YoY. For families that can be hundreds of dollars per month (yen equivalent) that they have to pull out of thin air, and that's in a country where the median wage is half of Australia.
* Yes, Japan already imports over half of its food, but rice is where the government decided to draw the line in the sand.
You don't even need to consider an ally being a bad actor. When Ukraine was invaded, wheat prices (to name one) in Europe shot up. England in particular has fairly significant food security challenges.
Japan forces this to be the case with extremely high tariffs on rice imports. It's not that they won't consider it, they literally can't.
I'm not sure tarrifs have a huge impact; Japan is Australia's largest buyer of rice, importing $63.8MUSD worth in 2023 per the OEC: https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/rice/reporter.... That's a lot of rice to buy, if it's more expensive and less desirable then domestic rice.
> The government imports 770,000 tons of rice tariff-free annually under its minimum access quota, and places up to 100,000 tons of that up for auction. Private-sector imports, which are separate from that framework, are subject to a tariff of 341 yen ($2.35) per kilogram, a measure intended to protect domestic producers. [1]
Since 1995 Japan has been forced by the WTO to import a certain amount of rice tariff-free every year. Much of it doesn't even go to Japanese consumers, but rather to animal feed and strategic reserves. Prior to 2024, virtually all imported rice in Japan was imported to satisfy this requirement. Presumably that also includes the $63M of rice imported from Australia in 2023.
The tariffs do indeed have a massive impact, and until recently it was very difficult for consumers to even find imported rice in supermarkets.
[1] https://archive.is/0heNf#selection-2761.52-2761.373
Japan is forced to buy it as per some kind of trade agreement, and then stores it until it is fed to livestock
I see cal-rose for shy above 3000 yen. While I didn't grasp the details, I saw a news report which made it seems they've set up a quota (xx tons or something) of rice to be imported with almost no tariffs.
That sounds possible, I can get premium calrose at 4.5kg for 20$, which adjusted to be 5kg is like 3200 yen or it could be regular quality calrose marked up, I can get that for half the premium price so equivalent of 1600 yen.
> I pay somewhere around AUD$14/kg for Japanese rice in Australia
a 10kg bag of (AU-grown) koshihikari at Hanaromart (some Asian supermarket) is around 43 AUD right now IIRC. Could I tell the difference in blind tasting between it and just "normal" koshihikari off the shelf off a Japanese supermarket? Maybe, but maybe not. Not an argument for removing trade barriers, but the gap right now seems pretty stark.
I do feel like it's worth thinking about how you're saying 800 yen, but that might be per person. So for a 3-person family that's almost ~120k JPY per year. If you could cut that down to 90k JPY per year thats an extra 2500 JPY per month you can spend on food.
If you're the kind of person who only goes to the discount shops, an extra 2500 JPY per month can go a decent way on food. If you are on a pretty strict/limited food budget that 2500 JPY could go a long way.
Though of course like with eggs, etc, all food prices are just more obvious as well. And Japan has had really nasty inflation with energy + the weakening yen as well, so this is yet another thing that saps away at a budget where you're probably not saving that much to begin with.
As mentioned, I've done taste tests across various options and I can definitely tell the difference, which is why I pay more.
But as I also said, I can afford to pay more. I don't think the average Japanese is going to be effected. But as I mentioned, if you're budget conscious, not even considering non-Japanese rice is ridiculous.
> As mentioned, I've done taste tests across various options and I can definitely tell the difference, which is why I pay more.
Can you tell the difference between Japanese brands or only between Japanese and non Japanese origin rice?
Is rice a significant percentage of food cost in Japan? Coming from a culture that uses less rice, the cost of price verses the cost of protein makes it just about a rounding error when cooking.
Now butter on the other hand has just about become a luxury good in New Zealand when it was once cheap, plentiful and extremely high quality.
I can taste the difference between Japanese brands and, because we have a local Japanese grocer with various regional rice options, I get to eat the one I enjoy the most.
But in general, I’ve not found non-Japanese rice that tastes as good, although we don’t have much variety of non-Japanese Japonica around (I won’t get into the general homogenization issue of products in Australian supermarkets).
> Is rice a significant percentage of food cost in Japan?
At the height of rice prices, rice cost about the same per kg as domestic chicken thighs. That's a problem when rice is meant to be an affordable staple food.
rice is meant to be an affordable staple food.
Citation needed.
Oh, FFS.
https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+consumption+of+rice...
> the cost of price verses the cost of protein makes it just about a rounding error when cooking
In the context of someone who is budget conscious typical meat prices likely place the vast majority of it entirely out of the question. Similarly a much larger proportion of calorie intake is likely to be made up by a nonperishable staple under those circumstances.
> The fact the average Japanese person won't even consider trying imported Japonica rice from Australia or USA is madness if budget is a consideration.
I live in Japan, and my girlfriend is an atypical Japanese that doesn't like rice that much. For her, the madness is that people here won't even consider other sources of carbs like pasta, potatoes, or bread.
There is this whole "It is not a proper meal unless there is a bowl of rice" kind of thinking. So you get rice with the potatoes that come with your Nikujaga, the mashed potatoes, steak and fried potatoes, etc. But then there is that completely arbitrary line that you do not get a bowl of rice with your noodles (unless it is for dunking into the leftover soup of your Ramen or Tsukemen), pasta, burger, etc.
I love Japanese food culture to bits, but figuring out when a bowl of rice is vital for a meal to even be considered a meal and when it is not is still a mystery to me after observing my wife and in-laws for more than a decade. Having been taught the "food pyramid" [1] line of thinking as a child, it just makes no sense to this gaijin how we can not substitute one source of carbohydrates with another, but I suppose that is what culture is for you.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Guide_Pyramid
that influence is definitely present in hawaii, where you can get a breakfast plate at mcdonalds with spam, eggs and rice [0]
[0] https://www.mashed.com/650241/the-mcdonalds-breakfast-item-y...
It's similar in Ireland, at least amongst my elder relatives. A meal is not really a meal if it doesn't come with potatoes.
American: meat.
Same-same.
I am not Japanese, and don’t eat a lot of rice (twice a week maybe), but I don’t think it’s madness.
If you told me to eat rice instead of bread I would probably be just as horrified
While I'm English with some Indian leanings, I think it's potatoes > rice > bread > naan bread.
Are those “>” greater than signs or arrows?
Neither English nor Indian and I would rate Naan bread right at the top if I had a choice.
Yeah, I've seen a fair amount of "but what will we eat?!" Netsuke-clutching and like... Y'all already have a trend towards bread for breakfast and you love your wafu pasta. Do that a couple of times a week.
But it's Japan, so I imagine there's plenty of Showa who think all change is to be valiently fought and that not eating rice prevents you from being "proper" Japanese.
Why is it so objectionable that people are upset a common food item is increasing in price?
Food isn't a commodity. I won't happily substitute nutriloaf for my lunch today.
Normally when someone makes that kind of remarks, the subconscious intent is that we can further enrich rosters of lunch options with abundant Japanese purchasing power, than that we can actually replace rice with something more however rational. So it sort of amounts to modern day let them eat cakes quote - which wasn't crazy as it sounds with context at the time that cakes were supposed to be cheaper than plain breads, if it weren't for famine.
The apocryphal quote is "Qu’ils mangent de la brioche" - "Let them eat brioche", a rich, egg-laden bread. But it translates less well than "cake".
Interestingly, similar quotes seem to have been attributed to other royalty of other countries, well before the revolution.
I recall watching a video on YouTube from the creator Paolo in Tokyo, and he mentioned that bread is now more popular than rice as a breakfast staple in Japan. Not sure how true it is though.
I live in Japan, and have lived here for the last 25 years. Yes, bread is far more popular for breakfast than rice is. If you go to a Japanese-style Inn, they will serve rice and fish and miso for a "traditional" breakfast, but at home, many people eat toast. There's been an increase in jams and spreads to put on toast, as well. My family here in Japan (I'm American, wife is Japanese, kids are both), we've always eaten bread and yogurt with milk nearly every single day.
PS -- We nearly always have rice with lunch and dinner, though. Japanese-grown. IMHO, it tastes very different from imported rice, and we HAVE tried.
But yakisoba is pasta/noodles right? Or is that a dish more tailored to Western? I've never been to Japan, I'm just wondering.
Yes, it is, and no, it's very much to the Japanese taste.
There's no absence of non-rice main meals in Japan; Wafu pasta is an entire category of Japanese pasta dishes whose name literally means Japanese Style Pasta. Udon, Ramen and Soba abound, and Kansai in particular has a large number of Konamon, flour-based meals and snacks (resulting from Allied food aid after the bombings).
In some ways, the reaction to suggestions of swapping out rice are like that redneck uncle of yours who is mad his Cardiologist told him to cut down on red meat because "what else am I supposed to eat?!" even though his wife does all the cooking and they already have pork/chicken/fish 3 nights out of 7. It's an identity thing; in some ways to eat rice is to _be_ Japanese.
Yakisoba in traditional Japanese cuisine is noodles (“soba”), fried (“yaki”). Noodles varies but you can use ramen, udon, or others, and it’s stir fried up with vegetables, meats and a worcestershire based sauce and has been in japan since the 1930’s so like most things it means different things in different places.
This is my personal gold standard for yakisoba: https://sanyofoodsamerica.com/products/sapporo-ichiban-chow-...
But I’ve also seen “yakisoba” served up in US military mess halls and correctional institutions as little more than spaghetti noodles and hamburger as well.
It's probably like the price of gas in America. Easily seen, frequently bought so it causes anxiety. I know for some in America transportation is a serious concern, but there is also a lot of irrational reaction as well. After COVID, the person in the office next to mine was really upset that gas was like +$1. Like your house went up a quarter million in value and your mad because gas cost $5. You're never going to buy enough gas for it to matter. People are strange.
I used to live paycheck to paycheck, and when you live that way you're very sensitive to the price of gas since transportation is so vital. Gas going up by a dollar means you're now paying $60 to fill up your 15 gallon tank instead of $45. It's only $15 more, but if you don't make much in the first place and you already live paycheck to paycheck, it makes a huge difference and can cause a lot of stress watching that fuel gauge tick down.
This. When I was a bartender it wasn't uncommon for the last little bit of free cash I had at the beginning of the work week to be (barely) enough to get me to work
I've thought about carbon pricing. $100 a tonne sounds like a nice round number and it is in the ballpark where it is claimed that carbon capture and storage is affordable for coal burning power plants, oil refineries and such.
That comes to about $1 a gallon on gas, which I have two thoughts about: (1) I don't think it would change people's behavior that much -- gas has been $1 higher at times in the past and it didn't discourage me from driving and I'm not rich, I wouldn't consider spending more than $25k on a car whereas I know people who think nothing of buying an $80k truck. (2) I think Americans are highly sensitized to price increases right now and I think it would politically impossible to add $1/gallon to the price of gas, people would complain they are all out of spoons or it is the straw that breaks the camel's back or something. I think even 10 years ago it might have been easier, but right now, forget about it.
Their rice imports have risen by 2 orders of magnitude from 126 tons a year to over 10k tons already[1]
I don’t know if that is a drop in the bucket compared to their total consumption but their does appear to be an increasing appetite for foreign rice at the price points Japan is currently experiencing
[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Agriculture/Japan-s-May-ric...
But to put that in perspective, 10k tons is still only around the consumption for around 2.3m people, or less than 2% of the population.
Yea that totally fits in as this not really moving the needles, but at least on person in Japan has realized the market inefficiency and is capitalizing on it, which was main point to the comment I was replying to
I am curious now! What is the (taste) difference between old and new rice? Never heard that distinction before.
I do like to use Japanese rice when making congee it tastes so much better.
Honestly, I think the average Japanese person wouldn't care that much after they tried it a few times. Especially upon noting the significant monthly savings. There's almost no imported rice even available here, and the propaganda of the superiority of domestic rice is quite powerful.
does it have the same sticky/wet/chewy texture that Japanese rice is famous for ?
the rice demand in Japan is extremely inelastic, they would rather eat less than consume foreign brands, and a lot of this comes from the trust they have in their industries.
hardly something to ridicule Japan or suggest they depart from their cultural values.
Saying good rice is sticky/wet/chewy is not accurate, because different strains serve different purposes. Some rice is meant to be chewy for sushi, others are better used for chazuke. It also used to be a regional thing for which strains were used for which cuisines, eg Hokkaido rice (onigiri) is different than Shikoku rice (sake)
The equivalent is like French wine fans saying no good wine could be produced in California. Obviously that wasn't true, and there was a lot of propaganda trying to lead people to believe that it was.
> does it have the same sticky/wet/chewy texture that Japanese rice is famous for ?
Calrose does but its not as good as the japanese rice I've had. Though I dont live in Japan and its possible only the better quality rices are exported?
The tv reporting on cal-rose did point out it's a bit less starchy, but still good. Similar reporting on the strategic reserve rice pointed out it's a bit more crunchy but still good. Someone on TV saying it's still good is pretty strong marketing and seems to be contributing to sales of imported rice. It'll be interesting to see how this goes once things settle down, especially if tariff-free rice quotas stick around.
The agricultural minister went on TV and ate rice from one and two years ago from the stockpile and reported they were all delicious. People were _maaaaaaaaad_.
I know that Australian-grown Japonica does, although I don't think produces in Australia care about taste (which is why I buy Japanese rice).
But when the average bowl of rice is smothered in curry, demi-glace or egg, soy & sugar I don't think you could tell.
What I want to know is, what's happening to all the Australian rice they do import? Are the statistics lumping all varieties together, are we only selling them Basmati?
I was definitely neither ridiculing nor suggesting they depart from their cultural values.
I actually appreciate Japan's strong preference for domestic foods; the positive health aspects, the cultural ties, the community building, and so on.
I got Calrose about a month back for just over 3000 yen, which is slightly cheaper than the homegrown stuff. The issue is that a year ago the homegrown stuff was going for 1500 yen.
Oh, this brings back memories. I agree, the Japanese-grown rice in Japan is definitely different than the imported stuff.
I used to buy the rice grown in Fukushima prefecture because it was sold at a significant discount, during the short and financially disastrous period where I tried to immigrate there.
Isn’t at least some US rice high in arsenic due to The land previously being used for cotton farming? I was told never to eat rice from the South.
I don't think it is simple to eat a different rice under normal circumstances once you are used to it. In my case even something which is staple variety 200 km away
Maybe this is my millennial spoiled-for-choice nature, but that seems very strange to me. Though certainly it was (is?) similar in older generations here (overheard in the 80s: "pasta? no, no, we don't eat that foreign muck, it's meat and two veg in my house").
But if I lived somewhere where there are noticeable varieties of rice with local characters, it seems more fun to at least be open to trying them rather than stick with one for my life. Same with fresh pasta variations, olives etc in Italy, say.
Even for things like bread and coffee, I'll usually buy different kinds just to mix things up. Sourdough and Columbian today, rye and Ethiopian next week. I don't really have a "usual" of anything much that I'd be disturbed by changing to an alternative. Sometimes you get hits and occasionally misses, but that just means the you appreciate the hits more!
How is eating rice from years old storage "eating fresh rice"?
This rice in Japan is cheap because it's coming out of storage.
Not always a smart choice: https://www.japanfs.org/sp/en/news/archives/news_id032147.ht...
I'm curious if anyone has noticed a significant taste difference between Japonica rice and those imported from China, Korea, or Vietnam. Is one generally considered better tasting than the others?
> I'm curious if anyone has noticed a significant taste difference between Japonica rice and those imported from China, Korea, or Vietnam.
Yes, but it's like somewhere between mineral water and coffee. That is, most can tell the difference when directly compared, and may even prefer one over the other, but in many cases they are interchangeable.
> Is one generally considered better tasting than the others?
IMHO, no, but you tend to prefer the type you eat most often. Going back to the coffee analogy, most people have a roast / style they prefer, but few would claim that it's better.
Isn't that likely to be the other way around? You tend to eat most often that which you prefer?
Granted familiarity itself can play a role when considering something unfamiliar. But when it comes to both rice and coffee I purchase what I do because I significantly preferred it to the variants I tried before it.
I don't think so, because there are too many things, but not enough time in life to find out your true preferences for them all, so we all are (to varying degree of) indifferent to most things, and focus on only a few things we truly care about. For you, it's coffee and rice; for others, it may be monitor latency and keyboard switches.
I'd used coffee as an analogy, because it's something that almost everyone drinks, has many varieties, but most generally aren't too picky about it. Alas, I'd underestimated the population overlap between HN readers and picky coffee drinkers. :-P
I'll agree people exhibit varying degrees of indifference to things. But where I exhibit clear preferences it seems to me it's because I took genuine issue with whatever I tried before that.
That said, someone out there is purchasing the $1k gold audio cables and similar items. So I'll acknowledge that not all people fit that description.
my mum once bought "japanese rice" from the supermarket that tasted noticeably different (and worse). had to check the label, turns out it was made in Vietnam.
Not a Japanese person. But I regularly shop rice at a big asian supermarket. They offered a huge variety of US rice. However, I bought the Japanese one for twice the cost.
Primary reason: Trump. Secondary reason: quality.
…And how much time have you spent in Japan if I may ask?
This has been a fun/interesting ordeal to watch from far away, though I think people in Japan are feeling a lot of pain right now.
In Hawaii we get a lot of imported Japanese rice mainly due to prevalence of Japanese daily groceries here. The typical grocery store (eg donki) carries more than a few strains of rice - koshihikari, hitomebore, nanatsuboshi, hatsushimo, etc. These make a noticeable difference for your spam musubi's, but especially for sushi. We usually rotate between whatever's the cheapest Japanese imported rice, around $30-40 for ~15lbs, but I would say most people here eat Japanese rice.
At the start of the War on Trade, we noticed marginal price increases on Japanese rice, but especially noticed steep discounts on California calrose, like $15 for 25lbs, which to me felt insane. The local specialty rice store just had to issue a price increase notice last week (https://the-rice-factory-honolulu.square.site), though this seems like it's more the rice shortage than tariffs.
Thoughts and prayers though to the Japanese who will have to eat South Korean rice, once the national reserve stock dwindles. Hope they make it through this struggle period.
There’s also the shipping problem: it’s actually cheaper to ship from overseas than the US, due to the Jones Act. There’s more ships available to go from East Asia than from California.
Some ammounts of hitomebore and koshihikari are produced in the US, I noticed that in Hmart you see product of USA under the same brand as the Japanese rice sometimes (especially recently) Calrose is a japonica rice though obviously produced mainly in California
Delicious, but dealing psychic damage.
Related:
Why are rice prices still high? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44126639 - May 2025 (16 comments)
Japan plans to sell rice from emergency stockpiles to cut prices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42915690 - Feb 2025 (11 comments)
Why has Japan been hit with rice shortages despite normal crops? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41366304 - Aug 2024 (179 comments)
Some amount of price control makes sense for strategic defensive reasons: Japan isn't self sufficient in food but like many other economies wants to ensure a viable farming sector.
I'm not sure this amount of price control is needed for that outcome. From TV I get the impression Japanese rice production is pretty intensive, but also small plot focussed so not as efficient as Australia where it's miles and miles of field to the horizon.
Maybe Japanese rice farmers are a protected species?
I'm confused, you open by noting the clear case for protection, and close by asking if protection describes the pricing. Maybe you perceive price controls and protection as separate? Price controls are a way to implement protection.
I'm asking how much. We have a ring-fenced dairy sector and ring fenced apple sector in Australia, biosecurity typically defines the protectionism. We don't pay this level of excess for milk, cheese and apples.
You could give direct income support to rice farmers and not recover it by insane pricing for Japanese rice.
If memory serves, the whale meat was virtually given away but by no means cost nothing to hunt, flense and store.
Farm subsidies does seem like the well tested approach. A lot of people in the US complain about them but I quite like having the option of some ridiculously low cost staples if I'm willing to forgo quality. Placing the burden on the taxpayers as a whole seems like the right approach for things like food security.
A better strategic defense would be domestic meat production, with feed that can be diverted to direct human consumption in an emergency. This would build in a large buffer due to the inefficiency of conversion of feed calories to meat calories.
Defensive domestic meat production can't work without other defensive measures. Otherwise, meat producers will just import cost-effective feed from other places, which will shrivel up once geopolitical instability hits.
Surely you can graze animals in japan?
Normally grazing means grass, which doesn't fit the strategic goal of "feed that can be diverted to direct human consumption in an emergency."
But yes, surely with some combination of taxes, subsidies and there being no better economic use for the land, you can get people to grow soy or barley and feed cattle with it.
I don't think just producing meat is enough to stabilize the price of food anywhere.
It helps, reducing most of the need for government intervention, but it doesn't seem to be enough.
Also, it's wasteful, at least from some point of view. You stabilize the price by consuming the excess, but you would still need to survive an eventual shortage. It may not be a huge problem worldwide, but Japan in particular doesn't have a lot of excess capacity.
The goal wasn't to stabilize prices, but to provide strategic defense against food shortage in emergencies.
If that's your entire goal, it's a bad one. You won't be able to get enough food for your defense during a shortage if the farmers get bankrupt during high-production years.
There's nothing wrong with not making your compatriots compete with dirt poor workers elsewhere.
I can buy rice at Costco in the US for $25 for 50lbs, which is equivalent to 854 yen for 5KG. A bit less than 1/4 the cost of Japanese grown rice.
Rice in Japan is indeed weirdly expensive in the first place. Typical price is ~1 USD/lbs, but there's been a mysterious shortage and they're retailing at double the regular price.
The minister of agriculture right now, Shinjiro Koizumi, is the son of Jun-ichiro Koizumi with now-unpopular legacy of deregulating and wrecking the Japanese postal service among few other government functions. The minister is now advocating for deregulating rice anyhow in response to the ongoing situation, and the situation kind of stinks.
Sorry that it's probably not the kind of content appropriate at HN anyway. It's more of "uncovering Cold War history podcast" style of content except it's in live.
The previous minister was fired after they admitted they didn't have to experience the expensive rice because they were given free rice by farms in Japan
That is some bizarre obliviousness of privilege. I thought all of the more-equal-animals knew to keep quiet on the implicit bribes and other luxuries of their station.
It's rather quite the opposite in Japan. The "more-equal-animals" consistently make public completely oblivious remarks, only to apologize the following day and then (often) just go back to business as usual.
I think this is driven by the fetish to be extremely apologetic in Japanese culture.
I don't think the grey-haired dinosaur politicians are sexist, classist (is that a word?) and racist because they love to apologize.
Yeah, their imperviousness to either progress or consequences is kind of incredible. An entire nation of collectivist, rule-following tendencies with a scummy layer of cartoonishly evil folks at the top, who for some reason seem immune from having to be decent people.
And yet, somehow, it's a generally pleasant country to live in with happy healthy people and opportunity. Though, that momentum Japan's been running on seems to be running out.
These days it seems preferable to the Western alternative of politicians blatantly lying about their class to avoid the label.
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> now-unpopular legacy of deregulating and wrecking the Japanese postal service
Unpopular with who? In hindsight, the post office was a bandaid that needed to be ripped off before it became the next JNR. If he didn't do that, the tax payer would be on the hook for its final implosion, which is happening right now.
That's the perfect setting for the "Mom can we have X ? No, we have X at home" meme.
Otherwise USA rice is imported in Japan, as well as other countries' and is indeed way cheaper, but not desirable and people aren't literally starving either.
California does make good rice. Japan is just hyper protectionist with extremely high import taxes on rice. They don't get imported because of this tax. The US produces both lower quality and high quality rice, as you might expect of an enormous country that exports half its rice. This is why prices remain high. Do you think someone who is poor would not buy cheaper rice that had 90% the quality if they could?
In fact the US produces plenty of Japanese rice (Japonica)
> In fact the US produces plenty of Japanese rice (Japonica)
Indeed, I bought some and it was good. Italy also grows Japanese strains and it also of pretty good quality. Those are not cheap either, though. I'm assuming that's not the Costco rice parent was referring.
> This is why prices remain high.
It's complicated, and no single factor explains it all. Even singling out importing rice, Japan has better options than the US (the SEA region is a much more logical source for instance)
On the "it's complicated" part, believe it or not, Japan gov is/was actively restricting rice production as a long term strategy.
> Do you think someone who is poor would not buy cheaper rice that had 90% the quality if they could?
That's ignoring all the other options, in particular wheat (bread, pasta, noodles etc.), which can be cheaper than cheap rice. It doesn't match the cliche, but Japan has steadily included wheat as a staple over the years.
For everyone else assuming Costco rice is low quality, they offer multiple options.
Costco’s basmati rice is excellent quality and can be ordered online 20lb for $27 delivered.
So that’s only about double the unit price for top end, premium rice.
Cheapest rice I can easily get here in the UK, equivalent to ~1600JPY/5kg: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/314300009
Cheapest rice I am actually willing to eat, ~3000JPY/5kg: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/293247162
Shortgrain rice, such as Japanese rice, tends to be even more expensive than that.
That said, no idea where whatever it is the article is quoting the price of falls on that scale.
It's quite amazing how many kinds of Basmati and Jasmine rice you can find in a normal UK supermarket, and yet be completely unable to find any shortgrain rice at all: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/search?query=short+gra...
Isn't Japanese rice pretty different to Costco rice? Genuine question.
Yeah, as someone who started with Costco rice and slowly moved up the quality chain, there is a clear difference in taste between even average Japanese rice and most Costco rice. It would be interesting to see a price/quality comparison between the U.S. and Japanese Costcos though.
This is one of these case where cross-country comparison might bring little relevant information.
Another example could be wine sold at US Cosco vs French Costco. It would be an indicator of something, but I'd personally be lost if I had to interpret it in regards to wine trends in France in general.
In fact Costco has some of the most powerful wine buyers in the world
Costco sells a few varieties, this is the one we buy: https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/kokuho-rose-us-%231-e...
It's sushi rice, grown in CA, and it's very good. Same stuff we used to buy from our local Japanese grocery store in CA.
I can't remember how much I paid, but I was able to buy 10KG of grown-in-Japan short grain rice at Costco in Canada within the last year.
Snobs will tell you yes, but Kokuho Rose is a California grown sushi rice that's good enough to be served over imported Japanese rice at Japanese restaurants. Really disappointing that the farm is closing up shop.
Closing up shop?! I missed that news. Crushing. It's really the only rice I buy that's accessible but good quality. Sad.
Speculating from online comments around it and from looking at bags of Calrose rice, they seem to be few decades behind in cultivation techniques and selective breeding improvements. The grains look smaller, less shiny and more yellowy. but technically they should be of the same strain.
Japanese rice variety I think is called Japonica. I'm not sure if costco sells it.
Calrose, the primary rice grown in California is a Japonica, its just Japanese rice grown in America. Tamanishiki, which is one of the high grade sushi rices is grown in the US and Japan
It is O. s. subsp. japonica
> Calrose, the primary rice grown in California
Surprising, because while its widely available in California it seems to be a tiny minority of available rice. A search I did says it is 80% of California's crop, so presumably a lot of it is exported?
It doesn't serve every culinary purpose and most California grocery shoppers are not Japanese. You wouldn't make Moros y Cristianos with it. You wouldn't make Hoppin' John with it. It's no good for your Indian menu. It isn't really what you'd serve beside fried chicken.
There is no "best rice" any more than there is "best pants".
Good to know, however I always buy short grain brown rice, I like that one better.
Costco sells a couple of Kokuho-brand Calrose varieties, which are decent drop-ins for for generic East Asian rice.
haven't seen japonica often in the US, but jasmine rice is similar and available pretty much everywhere.
in fact, jasmine rice smells and tastes better, and stickier!
maybe I mis-understood what you meant by similar here but jasmine rice is nothing at all like japanese rice.
Jasmine top, Japanese bottom
https://postimg.cc/6y2b0JdB
They have a completely different consistency when cooked and are used for different things.
yes in fact, it is. relative to american rice.
it's has a similar stickiness, the taste is a bit different, but better imo.
it pairs well with asian dishes as opposed to american rices and can be used for sushi.
it's not 1:1, but it's certainly a good substitute when you can find japanese rice.
Jasmine rice can NOT be used for sushi! It's not sticky enough to hold together. The fact that it's not sticky makes it good for fried rice, not for sushi.
In my experience it's just barely sticky enough for sushi provided you don't wash it but I don't think the texture is right for that usage. I prefer it for most things though.
hmm, well the jasmine I buy is extra sticky.
maybe it's how it turns out in the rice cooker.
either way, I've done it and it tastes good /shrug
If your jasmine rice is turning out sticky you’re cooking it wrong.
might be confusing mushy with sticky - the individual grains of sushi rice is intact and whole. Mushy rice is a grain that has too absorbed too much water, and is burst.
Nice. What is the average supermarket price for the equivalent rice in US.
Looking at the closest one to me, $9/5lb (surely much less per pound in a bigger bag)
Doesn't matter, its a whole other country
Can someone tell me why a statement of fact is being downvoted? I am genuinely puzzled.
Because the poster's tone implies that American Calrose rice is inedible vs the superior Japanese rice. That's simply not true, and a bit reductionist.
Is this the comment you are referring to? I can’t find any such implications. Maybe it was edited?
I also wasn’t following. I primarily eat US rice. The marginally better rice from Japan I might buy if I’m going to make sushi at home, but that’s just because I’d be investing so much time and energy already, might as well spend a few bucks more on a slightly better rice.
You can buy the same rice in Japan if you are really desperate.
I think they’re deliberately talking only about rice people actually want to buy.
I found a TikTok which showed rice in a Japanese Costco. A calrose variety American grown rice (Legrande Family rice) in the Japanese Costco was 2998 yen for 5KG. Must be tariffs causing the price to be so high.
Japan has very high rice tariffs to protect its domestic rice production. It is not peoples choice, it is not available at a cheaper price.
People who eat mostly rice are picky about the rice they eat.
Golden Rice 2 was on the market for about five years in the Philippines before it got banned. If anybody had wanted to grow it or eat it it could have been a different story. I was talking to a genetic engineer a few weeks ago who said that the sensory qualities weren't that great. Nothing would have stopped advocates in the US from planting a few acres and selling bags of it (it's approved and all) but had they done so it would have put the lie to the idea that the developers were being persecuted like Prometheus. I don't think it was anywhere near the threat that its opponents said it was but it was nowhere near the boon that its promoters said it was.
not the same species!
american white rice is only good when it's transformed into spanish rice, fried rice or creamy rice.
otherwise it's too bland because it's stripped. brown rice is better but still not as good.
both japonica and jasmine rice are good on their own.
love jasmine rice over all of them, it makes your mouth water when you cook it.
edit: who downvotes a comment about rice? lol.
Premium Tamanishiki (a type of premium sushi rice) is grown in the US and Japan, the US just produces a lot of types of rice. Japonica is a category of rice that includes Calrose for example which is grown primarily in California and is definitely an "American" rice given that it founded the California rice industry
Perhaps because of factual errors (O. s. japonica is not only the same species, but the same subspecies), and pointlessly negative personal opinion making up the rest of your comment.
Asianometry did a great video on some of the reasons for this https://youtube.com/watch?v=l4vTQV3HjKU
Calrose is perfectly fine if you are looking for japanese grown rice replacement in the US. Same 'Oryza sativa subsp. japonica', just a different cultivar. It's the closest thing to Koshihikari but cheaper and widely available. Actually I'd say it's the best overall rice you can get not grown in Japan.
Good side by side https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Koshihik...
The "problem" is that you won't find rice like Yumepirika, Akitakomachi, Tsuyahime, or Nanatsuboshi (just a few example of my favorites) anywhere outside of Japan. Even Italy has japonica rice fields but it's a different class all together.
Ive seen US grown hitomebore and koshihikari, the koshihikari even under the same brand as the Japaneses rice just with a product of USA label
Calrose is quite different than most Japanese rice, since it's a medium grain. If you've grown up eating rice in Japan, it's instantly noticeable. You can buy California grown Koshihikari now on Amazon, which is a much better substitute.
Akitakomachi is grown in California. It's what Lundberg Sushi Rice is.
Calrose is medium-grain, but Koshihikari itself is grown in California as is a short-grain hybrid with Calrose called Calhikari. Sasanishiki is also being grown.
Traditionally in Japan, as far as I understand it, rice is more than just rice. https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/rice_its_more_than_food_...
$2.50/lb. in American
A great little video from Asianometry on the history of rice prices in Japan was a lovely primer for this article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4vTQV3HjKU
Arsenic in rice is on the rise. There is a chart in this article, on how to reduce that.
https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-find-new-way-of-cooking-...
That method is for long-grain rice used in other parts of Asia, simply unfit for Japanese rice(or vice versa). It's just their highly British form of humor and customary jest.
I'd suggest Brits ban full leaved teas in favor of microwaved teabags while at it.
The study is a British joke? What are you talking about?
It seems to work with all rice, just with varying effectiveness.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...
Why do you think the study is targeting Japan? And why would the Brits joke about it?
Do you think I am? It's just good, general info. Arsenic in rice is problem, and getting worse.
I wonder why you would claim something like this, which literally can save lives, is false?
Parboiling and draining rice has been a long-running European joke. Frenches do it as well. It absolutely ruin all short grains. It's a cooking method specifically for long grain rice as used in South Asian cooking, for which steaming would be wrong. And that is the point.
Something is missing in our exchange here.
Why would people purposefully ruin their food to make a joke? I sincerely doubt entire nations of people cook their food, purposefully ruining it, then laugh over the fact.
"Oh that rice was terrible! Let's cook it that way again!"
Yet you've attested this twice now, and in a thread discussing how to remove deadly arsenic from rice.
You seem to want to discredit this study. You've claimed the study was false, was made up in jest.
It's not some weird joke.
Whatever you're trying to say, please don't do it by trying to discredit something designed to save lives. It's uncool.
Of course it's not all British and French people. Just some.
You can see it in the eyes of the presenter in the notorious "BBC rice" video. It is a weird Continental joke.
Something about this study is a bit odd. Why does the white rice cooked without rinsing or draining have less arsenic than the raw rice? Is it dissolving then escaping as steam? If so, it seems like the drying step of the experiment screws up the interpretation of the results. If not, conservation of species mass is violated somehow.
I looked at the chart, this is interesting.
The only thing I could think of, was that the water used was not entirely absorbed during cooking. So even the UA sample had excess water disposed of at the end.
They talk about the lid being open, but that seems not plausible for the amount shown.
>The PBA method involves parboiling the rice in pre-boiled water for five minutes before draining and refreshing the water, then cooking it on a lower heat to absorb all the water.
The same draining step that removes arsenic also removes starch that's necessary for the traditional sticky texture of Japanese rice. You'll end up with rice that's difficult to eat with chopsticks. But it's great for making fried rice, especially if you replace the final absorption step with steaming, because all the grains end up well separated.
> Despite the fall, the average rice price was still ¥1,772 higher than that of a year earlier.
So this price isn't surprising or unusual at all.
End of times...
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> the growth hormone rBGH
is prominently labeled as "not used" in any of the milk at my supermarket. Where is all this rBGH milk coming from?
> Regulatory status
The use of rBGH is approved in the United States. However, many grocery store chains don’t carry milk from cows treated with rBGH. A United States Department of Agriculture survey conducted in 2014 found that fewer than 1 in 6 cows (15%) were being injected with rBGH.
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/chemicals/reco...
The correct answer is zero. It’s the difference between opt out and opt in. I don’t and can’t shop at your supermarket.
tests show over 90% of sampled U.S. fruits (like apples, cherries) have residues of multiple pesticides
So do non-US fruits, unless it's the "organic" stuff.
american exceptionalism at work
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Your comments in this subthread are against the guidelines. Issues of food safety and environmental externalities are important, and thus need to be discussed in a respectful and earnest way, not an inflammatory and combative one. Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future, notably these ones:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
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Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I would say the downvotes are primarily because you are inferring a political purpose to the OP that isn't in evidence, and railing against it in a way that appears simply off topic.
"So, if I may be editorial as a Canadian: No." is a strange, nonsensical way to respond to a post titled "Price of rice in Japan falls below ¥4k per 5kg".
Complaining about it and sarcastically ascribing ideological positions to downvoters is probably not helping, either.
See the top comment on this thread. It’s not nonsensical. It’s refuting the spirit of the conversation so far.
As for pesticides US vs Canada: Chlorpyrifos Neonicotinoids Ractopamine
All being phased out or banned up north. And much more restricted in EU/Internationally. While US use seems to me to be rampant.
Japanese rice costs more _because it is better_. And especially because it’s known by laypersons to be better. If any of the commenters here had any authority because perhaps they could claim they’ve spent a bunch of time in Japan like I have? I’d respect that.
And indeed, we Canadians are subject to politics about our supply management on dairy and poultry. It’s not just there to protect business. It’s there to protect health as far as my contemporaries are concerned.
Japan's the fourth largest economy in the world and, given how cheap rice is, it being 1x, 5x or even 10x average I'm sure is insignificant to 95%+ of people.
For perspective, it's about 2x what you'd pay in a UK supermarket. What's the big deal?
"rice" and "meal" are synonyms in Japanese language. Food in day-to-day Japanese cooking mostly consider what and how to pair with rice off the cooker. And "the food" is suddenly costing double. It is a big deal.
Its been progressively becoming more expensive for the last 18 months. And Japanese wages are the same as the 90's and they have millions of pensioners that can't absorb a higher price.