If everyone in a city switched to EVs, the city will be transformed in a very positive way.
When I was in Shenzhen in 2024, I think around 80% of cars are EVs (maybe 90% now?). The difference in livability is so drastic compared to when I was there in 2019.
The air quality, heat, noise are all so much better that going to any city outside of China seems like going backwards in time. It makes a huge difference in Asian cities due to the density. The difference is probably less drastic in a city like San Francisco where the ocean breeze cleans the air more frequently and it's not hot. Maybe also not as drastic in highly sparse American neighborhoods.
Same experience in Norway. 95%+ of new cars sold are electric.
I've been riding my bike to work along the same road for 15 years. I used to have to hold my breath along some sections of my ride. Now the air in the city is almost as fresh as in the countryside.
The problem with EVs is that they are essentially subscription cars. I don't want my car to be deprecated by a software update and I don't want a car that I can't fix myself. Not to mention all the safety problems that they have
> where the CCP has the power to Build Stuff, at scale.
Not just that, they can mandate large changes.
If you try to do that in a western country, you'll have fossil fuel lobbyists, car manufacturers and a whole range of other vested interests putting pressure on the country's government not to make that change.
Maybe as small "ease of mind." I expect the CCP to get as corrupted as western governments, and because of a lacking democratic spirit, id bet my money on china becoming a stable dictatorship like north korea, focused on sustaining the existing power structure than wellbeing of its citizens, like the lobbies in the west do.
Democracies might be slow and misguided but in the long term, they are the best shot to correct previous mistakes.
But who knows. Chinese leadership was very smart in the past, maybe thell find a new way.
I don’t get the sense that this is a problem in countries where accumulation of wealth and property as a show of power and success is the ultimate goal
Most people in China don't have cars. They use public transportation, buses, mini electric motorbikes that can be on sidewalks, and ride hailing.
So if they can't afford to switch from ICE to EV mandate, they still have options to get around. Though I think if a person had enough money to buy an ICE car, they should have enough to switch to an EV in China.
What do Chinese EV mandates, incentives, or carbon regulations look like? I had assumed that Chinese EVs were simply less expensive than gas cars and no extra incentives were needed.
I remember reading somewhere the waiting list for an ICE car permit (my interpretation: license plates) is several years. EV permits are available immediately.
With good reason too: Chinese cities had terrible air quality 10 or 15 years ago.
Doesn't matter if their before was worse. What's important now is that when one walks on a Shenzhen street, one does not breathe in gasoline car byproducts.
What _does_ matter is the huge reduction in the much more dangerous brake dust, as electric vehicles convert the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44666157
The comment is that they’re 10-15% heavier, not that they generate 10-15% more tire dust.
In general tire dust generated seems related to tire compound (softer tires = more dust) and weight of vehicle. Although EVs are heavier, they also tend to use harder tires for more efficiency, so it would not surprise me if it’s a wash by equivalent tires to whatever is used in normal combustion cars.
Seems to me the focus for tire dust should be focused on the truly heavy vehicles: how much do 18 wheelers generate, given they’re typically weighing 10-40x what a regular car weighs.
Would hybrids also have the same advantage? I have 2 hybrids as I have use cases that need gas (rural driving). One of them is a traditional style and the other is a 50 mile electric option which can use gas when needed.
If everyone in a city switched to EVs, the city will be transformed in a very positive way.
When I was in Shenzhen in 2024, I think around 80% of cars are EVs (maybe 90% now?). The difference in livability is so drastic compared to when I was there in 2019.
The air quality, heat, noise are all so much better that going to any city outside of China seems like going backwards in time. It makes a huge difference in Asian cities due to the density. The difference is probably less drastic in a city like San Francisco where the ocean breeze cleans the air more frequently and it's not hot. Maybe also not as drastic in highly sparse American neighborhoods.
Same experience in Norway. 95%+ of new cars sold are electric.
I've been riding my bike to work along the same road for 15 years. I used to have to hold my breath along some sections of my ride. Now the air in the city is almost as fresh as in the countryside.
The problem with EVs is that they are essentially subscription cars. I don't want my car to be deprecated by a software update and I don't want a car that I can't fix myself. Not to mention all the safety problems that they have
None of these are issues specific to EVs. This is more of a problem with all modern cars. Valid concerns, but they impact ICE vehicles just as much
In that case you don't just need an ICE vehicle, you need one that hasn't been manufactured in a very long time.
That can work pretty well in China, where the CCP has the power to Build Stuff, at scale. Things are Different in most "1st world" nations. :(
(I'd also guess that China had pretty lax emissions regulations in prior decades, making their "before" considerably worse.)
> where the CCP has the power to Build Stuff, at scale.
Not just that, they can mandate large changes.
If you try to do that in a western country, you'll have fossil fuel lobbyists, car manufacturers and a whole range of other vested interests putting pressure on the country's government not to make that change.
Maybe as small "ease of mind." I expect the CCP to get as corrupted as western governments, and because of a lacking democratic spirit, id bet my money on china becoming a stable dictatorship like north korea, focused on sustaining the existing power structure than wellbeing of its citizens, like the lobbies in the west do.
Democracies might be slow and misguided but in the long term, they are the best shot to correct previous mistakes.
But who knows. Chinese leadership was very smart in the past, maybe thell find a new way.
Haha, the evolution of these comments about China has been a source of entertainment for me.
You have a very interesting view of the world if you see China currently as less corrupted than the Western democracies.
You forget the citizens who can't afford to change their cars. Of course a dictatorship can just say "too fucking bad".
I don’t get the sense that this is a problem in countries where accumulation of wealth and property as a show of power and success is the ultimate goal
EVs are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than equivalent ICE cars in China.
Which is not what I said. Buying a new car is an upfront cost that not everybody can afford to pay.
Most people in China don't have cars. They use public transportation, buses, mini electric motorbikes that can be on sidewalks, and ride hailing.
So if they can't afford to switch from ICE to EV mandate, they still have options to get around. Though I think if a person had enough money to buy an ICE car, they should have enough to switch to an EV in China.
What do Chinese EV mandates, incentives, or carbon regulations look like? I had assumed that Chinese EVs were simply less expensive than gas cars and no extra incentives were needed.
I remember reading somewhere the waiting list for an ICE car permit (my interpretation: license plates) is several years. EV permits are available immediately.
With good reason too: Chinese cities had terrible air quality 10 or 15 years ago.
Doesn't matter if their before was worse. What's important now is that when one walks on a Shenzhen street, one does not breathe in gasoline car byproducts.
Less CO2 for sure but do any of these studies also factor in increased tire dust from EVs since they are heavier and wear out tires faster?
Yes, but it turns out it doesn't matter much.
What _does_ matter is the huge reduction in the much more dangerous brake dust, as electric vehicles convert the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44666157
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44670401
This comment says EVs generate 10-15% more tire dust which is a significant ocean pollutant.
Does anyone know the impact on human health?
The comment is that they’re 10-15% heavier, not that they generate 10-15% more tire dust.
In general tire dust generated seems related to tire compound (softer tires = more dust) and weight of vehicle. Although EVs are heavier, they also tend to use harder tires for more efficiency, so it would not surprise me if it’s a wash by equivalent tires to whatever is used in normal combustion cars.
Seems to me the focus for tire dust should be focused on the truly heavy vehicles: how much do 18 wheelers generate, given they’re typically weighing 10-40x what a regular car weighs.
Would hybrids also have the same advantage? I have 2 hybrids as I have use cases that need gas (rural driving). One of them is a traditional style and the other is a 50 mile electric option which can use gas when needed.