Edit: now that I realize from the article its 16" circumference it's less surprising, and I can imagine what it would look like. The title should mention it is circumference.
Second sentence in the second ("Game Play") section:
> Game play for 16-inch softball is mostly consistent with standard softball game play. In contrast to standard, or 12-inch (30.48 cm) softball, it is played with a ball 16 inches (40.64 cm) in circumference.
FWIW, softballs by are sold by their circumference, so it would be unconventional (and unwieldy) to change the page title to "16-inch circumference softball". And I mean, it should be obvious.
(I agree a photo would help and wiki pages are easy to edit, but I looked for a creative commons licensed 16" softball photo and couldn't find one.)
I don't think "it should be obvious". The world we live in is one where caber tossing, curling, boxing, cheese rolling, quidditch, and sepak takraw (to name just a few) are all sports. So "softball with a 16-inch diameter ball" really isn't so unbelievable of a concept that it should be obvious that it doesn't exist.
One of the things I like about Hacker News is that, when someone throws around a vague sports term, there's a massive discussion to just figure out the heck they are talking about.
i'm not going to get on a soapbox if i can't understand a caber toss, curling, cheese rolling, qudditch or sepak takraw headline, and but i will climb that tallest soapbox in the middle of three and complain if headlines are all so unwieldy that i can glean all the info i don't know about every sport
also, a "16-in circumference softball" article still wouldn't even be allowed into the EU as it's not metric.
a softball with a 16-inch diameter ball would really be unbelievable. A basketball is less than 10 inches, so imagine something ~2x the size of a basketball being swung at with a bat.
if that was the only difference. the fact the ball is designed to get softer the longer it is played makes it so hits at the start of a game are different than at the end. fielders would learn this and change tactics based on that. normally, when the ball goes flat during a game, it is replaced. that in and of itself made it interesting to me as a standout feature.
I would agree with "should be obvious" if this was a sports news website :D. Sorry, sometimes us nerds need more context or a title will seem misleading / clickbait-y.
I clicked around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4qCVWejYrA to see people playing and holding a "16 inch softball". It took me awhile to realize that it's the circumference too.
This is proper softball, none of that 12-inch nonsense. The original game was played using a wrapped up fielder’s mitt as a ball. Although the rules are similar to baseball, it’s a very different game, one much more about fielding and base running than baseball which is ultimately a game about pitching.
I’ve played in adult leagues for both the common softball and the 16-inch softball (everywhere I’ve lived everyone called it Chicago style), as both a player and a coach. Aside from being an unusually expensive ball to purchase (I believe that they are all hand-made in the Caribbean), the 16-inch ball is a LOT more aerodynamically stable. A long distance/home run hit will have a lot of spin, so either ball flies well. But a super hard hit line drive in the infield will not have much, if any, spin on the ball. The common softball jumps around a lot, and I’ve seen injuries from people that were unable to catch one. But the 16-inch ball flies straight and true. And breaks your finger.
I grew with the game blooperball but nobody ever seemed to know what it was. I had no idea it was a name specific to Bay City, Michigan. Also strange to see my hometown pop up on Hacker News.
A fun game we used to play as kids was a similar variety, but with a home made "ball". The ball would be a balloon that was tension wrapped in duct tape. They'd last about a single game, but were incredibly light.
It still had enough mass to be thrown, but it also had so little mass that spin would drastically change the trajectory. It made for more interesting pitching and strategy.
If you've played more than like 10 games :/ Growing up in Chicago, "softball" meant 16" and nobody used mitts for casual games and you could count on at least a jammed finger in any game. The amount of momentum such a large "soft" ball has is deceptive.
Wow I had no idea this was even a thing, or that it could be more common than regular softball in Chicago.
Reminds me a bit of Candlepin bowling [1]. When I was growing up in New England, that was the only type of bowling we had in my town. And even now that both types are available (often in the same bowling alley), we still call regular tenpin bowling "big ball" bowling.
I wonder what other such regional sports variations are out there that I've never heard of.
> and played with no gloves or mitts on the fielders
I've played in several leagues that use 16 inch clinchers and we used gloves. I hate them, but at least as it was explained to me, clinchers don't go as far when they're hit, so they're better for small fields in Brooklyn like McCarren Park.
At my junior high school, these were sometimes used in dodgeball. I was not a small kid, but there were some eight graders who were much bigger. It stung if one of those guys got you squarely with the ball.
I greatly admired a tee shirt I saw a few years ago, saying something like "Dodgeball: America's Version of Stoning."
I should add that this would have been at the end of the 1960s.
So similar to Canadian slow-pitch? Of the 4 distinctive features differentiating from softball (arcing pitch, larger ball, smaller field, lack of gloves) slow pitch has the first, may have the second and third depending on league, but always uses gloves AFAICT.
Slow-pitch isn't Canadian? I played in the US and yes it had an arcing pitch. The big difference is that 16 inch softball has a very large and actually soft ball compared to slow-pitch and an extra fielder (short center) and some extra rules around how many batters / fielders you can have for a game.
The article sure could use a picture.
Edit: now that I realize from the article its 16" circumference it's less surprising, and I can imagine what it would look like. The title should mention it is circumference.
Second sentence in the second ("Game Play") section:
> Game play for 16-inch softball is mostly consistent with standard softball game play. In contrast to standard, or 12-inch (30.48 cm) softball, it is played with a ball 16 inches (40.64 cm) in circumference.
FWIW, softballs by are sold by their circumference, so it would be unconventional (and unwieldy) to change the page title to "16-inch circumference softball". And I mean, it should be obvious.
(I agree a photo would help and wiki pages are easy to edit, but I looked for a creative commons licensed 16" softball photo and couldn't find one.)
I don't think "it should be obvious". The world we live in is one where caber tossing, curling, boxing, cheese rolling, quidditch, and sepak takraw (to name just a few) are all sports. So "softball with a 16-inch diameter ball" really isn't so unbelievable of a concept that it should be obvious that it doesn't exist.
One of the things I like about Hacker News is that, when someone throws around a vague sports term, there's a massive discussion to just figure out the heck they are talking about.
Reminds me about this thread about goats: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32191140
i'm not going to get on a soapbox if i can't understand a caber toss, curling, cheese rolling, qudditch or sepak takraw headline, and but i will climb that tallest soapbox in the middle of three and complain if headlines are all so unwieldy that i can glean all the info i don't know about every sport
also, a "16-in circumference softball" article still wouldn't even be allowed into the EU as it's not metric.
a softball with a 16-inch diameter ball would really be unbelievable. A basketball is less than 10 inches, so imagine something ~2x the size of a basketball being swung at with a bat.
Yeah, that's why we clicked on the link.
A softball like 10% bigger isn't that interesting.
if that was the only difference. the fact the ball is designed to get softer the longer it is played makes it so hits at the start of a game are different than at the end. fielders would learn this and change tactics based on that. normally, when the ball goes flat during a game, it is replaced. that in and of itself made it interesting to me as a standout feature.
I played kickball as a kid; as a clumsy nerd it was a lot more fun.
I don't remember ever using a bat with a kickball, other than for laughs. It would work, though.
I would agree with "should be obvious" if this was a sports news website :D. Sorry, sometimes us nerds need more context or a title will seem misleading / clickbait-y.
I clicked around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4qCVWejYrA to see people playing and holding a "16 inch softball". It took me awhile to realize that it's the circumference too.
100% agree. In case it's helpful, here is the best image I was able to find: https://live.staticflickr.com/54/128223579_34056fb847_b.jpg
That's a pretty, uhm, big ball. I imagine it'd be highly entertaining to see the Savannah Bananas play with these 16 inchers!
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/08/NYPICH...
https://thesavannahbananas.com/
Thanks. That is indeed massive.
I wouldn't mind seeing 16" diameter softball now. It'd be like a gym ball.
This is proper softball, none of that 12-inch nonsense. The original game was played using a wrapped up fielder’s mitt as a ball. Although the rules are similar to baseball, it’s a very different game, one much more about fielding and base running than baseball which is ultimately a game about pitching.
I’ve played in adult leagues for both the common softball and the 16-inch softball (everywhere I’ve lived everyone called it Chicago style), as both a player and a coach. Aside from being an unusually expensive ball to purchase (I believe that they are all hand-made in the Caribbean), the 16-inch ball is a LOT more aerodynamically stable. A long distance/home run hit will have a lot of spin, so either ball flies well. But a super hard hit line drive in the infield will not have much, if any, spin on the ball. The common softball jumps around a lot, and I’ve seen injuries from people that were unable to catch one. But the 16-inch ball flies straight and true. And breaks your finger.
I grew with the game blooperball but nobody ever seemed to know what it was. I had no idea it was a name specific to Bay City, Michigan. Also strange to see my hometown pop up on Hacker News.
A fun game we used to play as kids was a similar variety, but with a home made "ball". The ball would be a balloon that was tension wrapped in duct tape. They'd last about a single game, but were incredibly light.
It still had enough mass to be thrown, but it also had so little mass that spin would drastically change the trajectory. It made for more interesting pitching and strategy.
Apparently a dislocated or broken finger is commonplace if you've played enough years.
If you've played more than like 10 games :/ Growing up in Chicago, "softball" meant 16" and nobody used mitts for casual games and you could count on at least a jammed finger in any game. The amount of momentum such a large "soft" ball has is deceptive.
Wow I had no idea this was even a thing, or that it could be more common than regular softball in Chicago.
Reminds me a bit of Candlepin bowling [1]. When I was growing up in New England, that was the only type of bowling we had in my town. And even now that both types are available (often in the same bowling alley), we still call regular tenpin bowling "big ball" bowling.
I wonder what other such regional sports variations are out there that I've never heard of.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candlepin_bowling
I'm fairly sure Mike Royko wrote a column denouncing a plan to allow gloves for league games.
Reach down for a grounder that takes a hop that you don't expect and you'll probably jam a couple fingers when it bounces into the tips.
Unfortunately, I can confirm this.
https://youtu.be/oqrtoFWglMY?si=dF70gTql9TwYi4iB
This music video perfectly captures the essence of 16-inch softball. I believe Serengeti still plays in a Chicago 16-inch league to this day.
I'm so happy to see two HNers who love this song (and the video)!
"....
Play softball with the guys, wife made curly fries
Drink about four O'Doul's, grounded out, two pop flies
...."
I've never even been to Chicago, but this video made me nostalgic for it.
The great thing is, no gloves required--just a ball, a bat, a vacant lot, and a handful of players of almost any age.
> and played with no gloves or mitts on the fielders
I've played in several leagues that use 16 inch clinchers and we used gloves. I hate them, but at least as it was explained to me, clinchers don't go as far when they're hit, so they're better for small fields in Brooklyn like McCarren Park.
I'm disappointed to read that 16 inches is referring to the circumference, not the diameter, of the ball.
The game I was picturing in my head seemed far more exciting.
I was half-way through the article when I realized this, to my disappointment - as the idea of a softball the size of a beachball was very fun.
It would also be interesting to play softball with a beachball.
At my junior high school, these were sometimes used in dodgeball. I was not a small kid, but there were some eight graders who were much bigger. It stung if one of those guys got you squarely with the ball.
I greatly admired a tee shirt I saw a few years ago, saying something like "Dodgeball: America's Version of Stoning."
I should add that this would have been at the end of the 1960s.
So similar to Canadian slow-pitch? Of the 4 distinctive features differentiating from softball (arcing pitch, larger ball, smaller field, lack of gloves) slow pitch has the first, may have the second and third depending on league, but always uses gloves AFAICT.
Slow-pitch isn't Canadian? I played in the US and yes it had an arcing pitch. The big difference is that 16 inch softball has a very large and actually soft ball compared to slow-pitch and an extra fielder (short center) and some extra rules around how many batters / fielders you can have for a game.
Nothing is more satisfying that hitting an old 16" softball and having the guts fly out of the skin.