I switched to Android last year, from being a long time iPhone user, just for the fold. I got the google pixel fold 9 pro. I also got lucky as it's right when all the cool AI integration started (and it sounds like it doesn't really work on Apple).
My first hand experience is that I will probably never be able to go back to a non-folding phone. The ability to get a small tablet on demand anywhere (subway, train, bed, couch, etc.) is really the next technological breakthrough we were waiting for.
I think the pricing and the battery kinda suck, android also doesn't have the same polish as iOS, but most of the criticism that I've read is not really relevant (for example, I can't see the crease at all if I look at my phone)
I use it a lot to read PDFs and watch videos, or when U want to multi task with two apps open at the same time (e.g. filling forms with a pic of my passport on the other screen). I also read mangas from it. Oh and the ability to use the back camera for selfies while being able to see myself is so great I use that all the time.
>> android also doesn't have the same polish as iOS
As someone who switched from using Android for many years to iOS for the iPhone Mini, this seems to be all about what you're used to. The lack of polish on iOS for many features, notifications and quick settings first among them, makes me crazy but not enough to deal with a huge phone. Android's had the notification shade with integrated settings since just about day one and it's a killer feature.
Riffing on a comment I saw on one of LinusTechTip's "Switch to Android/Apple" videos: phone users misinterpret familiarity with intuitiveness and polish. Android is "intuitive" to me because I've been using it more than a decade. It's "polished" because I'm blind to the rough edges.
I was really surprised when I first got an iPhone. After all the hype about it being so intuitive and polished, it was just different. Some things better, some things worse.
But Apple devices take a bit longer to go obsolete, and seem just a tiny bit less invasive as they don't rely on an advertising model for revenue.
For the few months that I had to use an iPhone in addition to my regular Android phone, I also tried to convince myself that some things were better and some things were worse.
But the iOS keyboard was completely unusable for me as a power user, and it cannot be replaced. I was missing so many features of Gboard. I absolutely could not consider an iPhone or any other replacement phone for that matter, if it does not support Gboard.
iOS must have changed some things related to keyboards. On an iPhone many years ago it was definitely a better experience. I’m not sure if some sort of predictive text gets in the way or what. Or maybe something with the spacing. Or it also seems like some sort of thread priority issue because there are times where I can distinctly tell that there’s some sort of input lag that’s messing with it.
Gboard is crippled on iOS — why can’t we just have a damn comma on the main screen?! And why can't I just get my keyboard to be at the very bottom of my screen.
Wow, as others have said below, disabling the “Slide to Type” feature in Settings > General > Keyboard makes typing work well again on iOS. I cannot believe I put up with this awful typing experience for the past year/years. This should be broadcast more widely somehow. I’m sure many people have just assumed they got worse at typing. I am genuinely flabbergasted.
HOLY shit.
You just changed my life. You're absolutely right.
It fixed the exact problem I could never quite pin down.
I guess the keyboard was always a bit too eager to detect a swipe?
This is absolutely nuts
edit: i can type without looking again! i hate that this was the issue.
Been using iPhone for years and I swear the keyboards accuracy has turned to absolute shit. I am convinced through my experience that they have definitely changed something and made it terrible. It’s making me consider getting an android cos that’s how we use our phones - with a keyboard.
I've noticed the iOS keyboard has fundamentally different tap recognition based on whether swipe typing is enabled.
It looks the same but behaves differently enough that I have a hard time believing it shares code. When I turn off swipe, my tap accuracy goes MASSIVELY up, and a lot of the autocorrect screwiness seems to abate considerably. I can go back to blind thumb typing.
That said, swipe is so useful, I’ve left it on, and I deal with the degraded tap behavior. But maybe that’s a trade-off for you to consider.
I can't believe this is it. But this is it.
Too bad there's no quick toggle to turn it back on?
It's possible to create a shortcut for it maybe. I currently have a back tap bring up a menu of different shortcuts I use. Shortcuts is another aspect that's really under utilized because the UX just sucks so much.
I just tried to use Heliboard. It has many rough edges, I'll file issues to see it they can be improved.
For one thing, the voice typing is useless. It respects neither the language of the full keyboard nor the language shown in its interface. And that separate interface needs to be brought up separately, thus requiring many taps - exactly what I'm avoiding by using voice typing in the first place.
Selecting text then pressing the Delete key does not delete that selection in Hebrew or Arabic. It does work in English.
The swiping in English works fine - probably because that library is lifted directly from Gboard. So the idea is independence from propriety Gboard is not reality anyway. Swiping does not work in Hebrew or Arabic - which together with the lack of voice typing means that I can not use this keyboard at all.
I do like the arrow keys and selection buttons in the toolbar. Gboard has that in a seperate pane, but in the toolbar is much more convenient.
today I was texting and Google Messages began to lag.
Why DOES everything seem to get worse? I can hear the Doctorow fans coming out of the woodwork to tell me it's "enshittification" but that's a cute conspiracy theory that doesn't explain at all why Google would allow Messages to have a memory leak after working fine for years.
There's no profit motive to making a core application shittier.
We have to dig deeper, because this kind of thing is everywhere and hand waving at capitalism like Doctorow does is a cop out and an unsatisfying explanation IMHO
Why do you need to dig deeper? If you were the PM would you prioritise the fixing of the bug instead of other work that’s more important? How many customers will you actually lose?
> But the iOS keyboard was completely unusable for me as a power user, and it cannot be replaced.
If you're still on Android, try FUTO keyboard. I found the voice-to-text feature to actually be on par with Google's, but without the delay of a phone-home.
Just checked with the iOS keyboard development guide and app store review and see no rules against it. Why are you pretty sure it is limited due to the OS?
It's pretty terrible but it's still the best of what I've tried. Given the progress in LLMs the autocomplete/autocorrect choices and word suggestions are laughably bad. Swype and the MS one though still managed to be worse
in the very beginning, there was a lot of animation stutters on android. The UI was much less consistent, and the design language of different programs varied pretty wildly. This gave me at the time, a feeling of a distinct lack of polish..
I would say, though that in the year of our Lord 2025, largely hardware is good enough that the animations never stutter on android anymore, an android applications have largely converged on similar UI paradigms.
So I think the issue with criticism is that people hold in the heads for a very long time, I mean a clear example is how people think Linux is extremely user hostile, despite most metrics of what makes something user hostile being significantly superior on most widely available in the next distributions except of course the power user focused ones. Whereas Windows 11 and macOS clearly do not give a shit about breaking muscle memory or having UI inconsistency.
Criticisms live longer in our minds than they do in reality.
In my experience, this was true also with Google’s version. The first few iterations were great, then went shit. I need only one thing: add diacritics, and fix basic misspellings. Now all of them try to be “smart” even when they should just add a diacritic to an “a”, they suggest me something completely different even when the word which I need is in their dictionary.
Maybe most people need more, but it annoys me greatly that it tries to be more than simple misspell fixer.
I would agree with you before Apple switched everything to gestures. Any time I now have to help a family member out on an iPhone I get extremely frustrated. Does the interface want me to swipe, long press or do something else? There are no real hints. Extremely irritating.
I miss the three physical navigation buttons that phones used to have. Yes, they took up a bit of space but they were also unambiguous about what their navigational function was.
I despise my work iPhone for the gestures and the screen lock canceling a call if it's not picked up yet, but turning the screen off if the call has been answered. Nothing more annoying than pinging someone by mistake and then calling each other with perfect timing so you both get the message that the other party is already in a call a couple of times.
My wife is a doctor but exact opposite of power user for phones and technology overall. She switched from android to iphone 13 mini when it came out, I recommended it to her and thought Apple is ideal platform for her. Bough her ipods pro too, chargers and so on.
The only, literally only thing she liked was the seamless integration of airpods with phone, hated literally everything else about the hardware and mainly iOS/software. Too dumbed down for her, some trivial things she does often are simply not possible on iOS and that's it, no way on earth to change that without voiding warranty, if at all.
So now she bought Samsung S24 and couldn't be happier. The switch made airpods pro basically useless or more like supremely annoying to use (there's an anti-competitive case or two against Apple in this, degradation is very obvious and on purpose), so she gave them away and happy with whatever plugs she picked up from ocean of available and good enough hardware for her use.
My boss is same story - bought into Apple ecosystem with some older pro max variant maybe 5-6 years ago, then of course airpods and watches followed. The very definition of power user. Switching now back to android (pixel 10 pro), hates the products at this point.
These are people who don't care about price much but want best usability and convenience for them. From opposite side of spectrum of users. Me, I never had A device and probably never will, but I respect them for success and innovation they bring to the whole industry. Good competition literally helps everybody in long run.
I've long said that if Apple didn't have their ecosystem lock-in, they wouldn't be able to compete on a level playing field.
I like a lot of Apple's hardware, and as of now I'm still "all in" on their ecosystems. I have the phone, watch, AirPods, iPad, macbook both for work and personal use, even an Apple TV box.
I can't stand iOS, but the only reason its "better" for me is just because I take advantage of all the other Apple devices and proprietary protocols + I prefer Apple Music over Spotify.
If third parties were allowed to also use AirDrop, shareplay/airplay, clipboard sharing, etc. then I'd dump my iPhone in a heartbeat. But, I love my apple silicon macs too much to get rid of those, and KDE connect isn't great on it, so I'm effectively "stuck"
It's wild how HN will consistently vote down comments that don't have good experiences with apple products, even well thought out ones like this. At the time of this comment you're pretty heavily voted as a negative comment.
Its fine I don't care, I prefer speaking whats on my mind (or experience of others around me) rather than chasing meaningless points by saying likeable stuff. Its not even my first account here.
Because neither the shareholders or the userbase cares about this. Apple has a captive market who accepted this limitation for over 10 years and thee won't switch to Android because of that issue.
Entification will only continue from here on both parties since they've achieved duopoly status, so as a customer you can only pick the lesser of two evils.
Also just how important certain features are to you personally.
For me notifications are generally more annoying than they are useful, and this doesn’t change under Android. In fact the emphasis that Android puts on them in the shade really sucks for me because it’d much rather have the quick settings pane fully visible than room for a couple more notifications — having to swipe again to see all the toggles is super annoying. So for me, the split shade that iOS does where swiping down on the top right edge of the screen shows only your quick toggles is preferable.
Some people basically live in their notifications, though. I’ve never been able to understand it, but they do, and so the Android way works better for them.
I think there are also less subjective aspects though, like the choice of animation curves through much of Android feels “wrong” somehow and different from almost everything else else out there, including Windows, Linux desktops, etc.
Just block all your apps from generating notifications. Long press the ones that show up in the pane and turn them off permanently. Eventually you will have them all eliminated.
As someone who has an android personal phone and an iPhone for work for several years, I literally do not know what the hell people mean by "polish", beyond just the informal emotional utterance that can be translated back to "what I'm used to". Half of the stuff in the iPhone is equally arbitrary and mindboggling as the android.
I think a lot of it is just tribal mysticism. One gets used to their preferred devices, and then they mentally imbue them with positive qualities, conjured out of their own imagination/biases. There was an article[1] a while back where the author was complaining that Android apps feel "inert and rigid," and lack "comfort, fun, and panache." Like, really? How is anyone expected to compare one app's "panache" with another one's? You're just used to one ecosystem's apps, and other people are used to another ecosystem's apps.
"But for the most part, it seems like third-party Android apps don’t even try to achieve the look-and-feel comfort, fun, and panache of iOS apps."
(referring to Android Mastodon clients vs iOS Mastodon clients)
Is nobody allowed to make any subjective judgement about apps?
“Polish” is subjective. If what a platform provides aligns with your needs, it feels polished. If it doesn’t, that same “polish” can actually work against you. In other words, polish depends on how much you agree with the platform’s way of doing things.
iOS (and Apple overall) tends to be more opinionated. It says, “Do things our way and you’ll have a smooth experience.” Android, by contrast, has historically been more of a flexible “toolkit.” That gave you room to shape the platform to your liking, though it often meant less guidance and structure.
In recent years, Android has shifted toward more out-of-the-box convenience, closing some of that gap. But ultimately, it comes down to what you value: iOS offers a cohesive, guided experience, while Android gives you more leeway to adapt things if you don’t agree with the defaults. Neither approach is inherently better—it’s about what fits you.
I've been using an iPhone I got from a carrier deal for the last year after using Android phones since the T-Mobile G1, and the notification shade drives me insane on iOS. Notifications in general are so much more annoying to deal with on iOS vs Android. For the love of god please just let me clear all notifications!
Also, how Apple seems to deliberately avoid including a shortcut to the full settings anywhere in the control center or the shade. It honestly feels like one of those stubborn Apple things where at one point they decided Android including a settings shortcut (gear icon on the shade) was somehow an admission that its quick actions were poorly designed and iOS is above that.
I think these features are or can be implemented. But they are definitely not obvious. And it’s possible they weren’t there when you first used an iPhone.
To clear all, swipe down on the top left to show Notification Center. You should see an X button right of the words “Notification Center”.
If you want to launch an app from control center, open control center (swipe down from the battery icon), press and hold on a clear area until you’re able to edit it. Add a control. Scroll down until you see the Shortcuts controls and pick Open App, then pick Settings.
1. That only clears notifications not considered “recent”. Any notifications above that cutoff have to be cleared manually (and sometimes there can be a lot).
2. This is actually helpful thanks, don’t think of using a shortcut and making one myself!
I just switched from a Motorola Razr+ to a OnePlus 13 because the Razr's internal display cable apparently started flaking out, probably because I dropped it on the hinge on concrete a while back. I almost got another Razr, but even though I got a "normal" phone this time around, I'm tentatively planning to move back to a foldable once my OnePlus is old and gray.
Foldables are just so nice; the flip style for me is especially convenient since it is more compact in a pocket. I also feel like we're almost to the tipping point where we can consider folding displays solved to the point that new generations start having marginal iterations (as opposed to "wow, the crease is so much smaller!" and "Oh look, they finally got foldables IP68 rated!").
Here's part of the list of warnings I saw when I setup a Samsung Fold for someone else:
> Don't press the screen or under display camera with a sharp object such as a pen or fingernail. Doing so can result in scratches, dents, or damage
to the screen.
> This phone isn't dust-proof. Exposure to small particles such as sand
may cause damage.
I live close to the beach, so very often have a bit of sand in my pocket. Seems like these phones wouldn't last a weekend.
I actually went back to the s25 from the fold because of this.
When you get sand in the hinges, it's pretty annoying and difficult to clean out. I was always nervous about taking my phone out on the beach.
That's tough living in Florida, the whole state is basically a giant sand bar.
I also actually didn't like the fold part. Most of what I do on a phone is read Kindle or browse the web.
For Kindle, the phone was uncomfortable to hold with one hand for long periods to read.
Web browsing was worse than a normal phone because many common sites like weather.com have responsive design that get very confused and unusable with that "in-between" size. The display on the outside of the phone that you can use while it's closed was so tiny and narrow it was unusable as well.
The whole thing was heavy and clunky feeling. (This was the most recent galaxy fold, the pixel one may be better)
I was pretty happy to go back to a normal form factor.
I've thought larger bi-folds have an odd aspect ratio for anything but two-app multi-tasking. E.g. there's ~ no benefit for videos compared to non-foldables with half the screen area. Is aspect ratio not an issue in practice somehow?
Yeah videos aren't as big as they could be due to the aspect ratio, they still look bigger though and its enough of a life improvement that I always flip mine open when I want to watch a video!
Probably because of all the AI integration stuff. You don't get something for nothing. Turn on battery saver, data saver, and decrease brightness (and refresh rate if possible). Still, You have three screens worth of volume taking away space for a larger battery. That's the deal with folders.
I discovered something insideous after being in the iOS ecosystem. Apple still slows down iPhones, but not in the way you think - every year around their iPhone launch schedule, like clockwork, my iPhone 14 Pro Max slowed down just enough to make me think it was ageing, but not enough to suspect - after a lot of tests, it turns out, the reponsitivity of the touch was being reduced in software. So, the "smooth" iOS polished animations feel a bit laggy, but not enough to raise eyebrows. But, this is not even the worst part. I casually - out of pure coincidence discovered that Apple actually reduces the camera's clarity around their new iPhone launches. Particularly low-light performance. I thought I was being paranoid, but I'm a photographer and the hotel I walked across everyday in the evening had these beautiful hanging creepers which combined with golden lighting, always provided a pleasant sight. So, I loved taking pictures of it randomly until one day I noticed that regardless of the camera mode, the noise was insanely high and the pictures suddenly looked like they were taken from an old Android phone from 2015. I cleaned the lenses, had no cover, etc. I copied the images to my computer and the difference was clearly visible.
You can clearly see a spike in as recent as September 2025. But, the camera data was the last straw for me. As a photographer who paid $1000+ for the iPhone Pro Max - supposedly their latest and greatest phone of the time, only to get screwed over by greed 2 years later, I had enough.
I sold the iPhone at a loss, got myself a Samsung Note and I actually took pictures of the same hotel again and the difference was stark. That really told me everything I needed to know about Apple's ethics. In contrast, I also have a Samsung S10+ from ages ago and it still functions flawlessly. The trade off clearly is privacy with the Android eco-system, but until we have a decent Apple alternative that's also privacy focused, I'm forced to accept this trade off.
Funnily enough, my iPad and Macbooks never get slowed down, even if it's 5+ years. It's only for the iPhones. I guess they view the iPhone as fast fashion or something, but the ethical component is not acceptable to me.
I wonder if there's a correlation here with new versions of iOS being released around the same time as new phones? Is it possible that OS optimization takes a back seat to bug fixes during the run up to release then subsequent point releases improve performance?
That's been my experience, using iPhones primarily since the 6s.
The .0 releases of iOS have been getting worse lately and are not great, but usually by .2 or .3 it's fine if not better on the older devices.
I think the annual release schedule is too much for Apple to the point that now the .0 release is effectively a public beta. Especially if there are any big changes. iOS 26 RC is laggy on my 16 Pro Max, which without a doubt can absolutely handle it, it's just a buggy mess still. I'm sure that by .2 it'll be fine.
How do you go back on iOS? Oh yeah it depends on which app and sometimes even where you are within one app. On android? Use the navigation bar or the same back gesture, every time all the time.
I switched to an iPhone five years ago and still miss the consistency of the Android back button. If a webpage embeds a full-width map, for example, the Safari back swipe is blocked by a pan action, and you need to jiggle the page's scroll to get the back button to show up at the bottom.
I dabbled a bit with iOS. I'm a long time Android fan, and I was curious, so I gave it a shot. And you're absolutely right. Even if you've come to expect backwards navigation to be in the top left, how the hell is that convenient? Assuming a right-handed individual, that means you have to stretch all the way up there or bring your left hand into play. And if you're left-handed, you still need to reach all the way up at the top of the screen. It's baffling. But we'll have people here defending it, for some unknown reason. Probably because they're used to it. Just like I'm not used to it as an Android guy so I find it repulsive. But I can also back it up with just the constraints of the human hand.
For what it's worth, I don't have the navigation bar at the bottom. I just use gestures, so anywhere I swipe off screen to on screen, it's considered a back gesture. Which, once you get used to it, you cannot go back. Well, you can. By swiping. ;}
only if I cannot reasonably access a computer will i use a thumb-typing touchscreen device to do serious work. as computing devices, they are sub-par when compared to desktops. as telephones, they are subpar compared to dumbphones
I dont mind iphones but with how they lock down their devices and do things like prevent you from removing keyword suggestions so when your keyboard starts harassing you, you are out of luck.and the edges are so sharp and uncomfortable to hold.
Its like wearing a thong or being locked in chastity.As a male I dont understand why people people wear those things.
So the facts we know are that 1) Samsung market share rising from 23% to 31% and 2) they recently released new foldable phones. But do we know that's the actual primary reason for the increase? I couldn't tell that from the article. The article mentions engagement of specific social media posts, but that's as much as it, without any sales number/estimates from anyone.
I heard a stat the other day in the Dithering podcast, I’m not sure from where, that said that foldable phones are something like 1.7% of the market in the US.
If that’s close it’s not why Samsung‘s market share increased so much. That was for ALL foldable phones of all brands. That wouldn’t make statistical sense.
There are people who like foldable phones. Apple does not have them. And Samsung‘s market share went up.
I also bet the numbers will change now that the 17 is out. These things are cyclical, and whomever releases first in a year typically gets a small boost. Samsung releases phones twice a year, Jan/Feb and July typically, while Apple is once a year in the fall.
These numbers are also only for one quarter.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Android's market share increase in the US, and I say that as an iPhone user. Apple's marketshare, especially amongst young people in the US is not beneficial at all, it's effectively a monopoly, and with iMessage popularity here it causes a communications lock-in effect. But, I'm doubtful without seeing a full years worth of numbers or a more consistent increase.
Or maybe people are finally tired of Apple stagnating and are finally open to trying the other side.
A separate point they made on the same episode is that when Apple releases a foldable phone (rumored for next year) it might significantly increase the number of foldable sold for all brands.
It would give the idea of foldable phones a big visibility boost so more people would know they exist, thus perhaps more would buy them.
Think about how popular MP3 players were before the iPod, and how popular they were after even for non-Apple ones. It raised a lot of awareness.
It’s an interesting idea. Personally I have a hard time seeing a foldable phone being something I would be interested in. But I’m curious to see Apple’s take.
It'd definitely be interesting to see the affect on the foldable market if Apple releases one.
I'm still skeptical on that happening though. I don't think the screen tech is ready for an Apple quality device yet, and Apple is historically very into device separation - they try not to blur the lines between their products. iPad will never be a mac, macs will never have touch screens, I have a hard time seeing them making a phone that effectively becomes an iPad mini.
I doubt they are making all of the impact, but are we comparing market share of newly sold phones to market share of all in-use phones, or the podcast was talking about newly sold?
I’m not sure it qualified. I’d assume in-use. But I doubt phones that get close to $2000 are popular enough to be a large percentage of new phones either.
Better than 1.7%? Sure. Better than 5% I doubt it.
Foldable phones are selling like hot cakes outside the U.S. but I don't know about the U.S. market. Could be catching up.
Here are some things to know about folding phones
1. They're like expensive cars. Do not own one without a warranty
2. As soon as the new model comes out, swap it in
3. If you're into smaller phones, they're a good option
4. They are not for the financially conscious. Those things are kind of a status symbol
Anecdotal, but I'm seeing a lot of folding phones in public.
I look at the prices and wonder how some of the people I see with them can afford them. But using them is probably many people's favorite hobby at this point?
Probably carrier financing. Most carriers will offer 3 year monthly payments for phones, along with other promos that come along with bill credits w/ trade-in, etc.
I doubt many are dropping $2,000 cash on the new phones but are more likely getting it financed as part of their phone plan.
Most of it is your tax dollars. I have two friends who aren't officially with the mother of their kids in any way on paper so that they get as many benefits for single mothers as possible.
I see this in media all the time. Make factual statements and imply they are connected, but with zero data if they actually are. Or claim "People are doing X" without any data if a statistically relevant number are actually doing X or just the 2 people they found as an example
Just anecdotally I spent some time with older members of my family a couple months back in a hospice situation, and folding phones were very popular with everyone at the facility. If your vision isn't the best and maybe your hands aren't so steady, having double the real estate makes a big difference.
That's interesting I would think someone in a hospice (old?) would mean barely able to use technology, something basic with big buttons like a jitter bug.
Funny I saw someone who's phone was so zoomed in the letters were massive in the messaging app, I thought they mistakenly did that but it was on purpose.
It was an assisted living facility with on site medical clinic and hospice care. So it was a wide variety of people.
And yeah, being able to make the letters huge is a big deal. Also being able to dictate texts or emails was also huge for a lot of the people there. Much more convenient for them.
You can see in the report that this article is based on that is a cyclical swing that happens every year based on their respective release cycles. Silly article.
I just bought a 2nd hand Fold 6 for 800$ and I'm not going back to slab phones ever. Primarily because I've never done as much reading as I've done in the past month with this phone. Removal of friction here has been such a game changer when it comes to productive use of my phone - now when I would doom scroll otherwise I just unfold my phone and do a bit of reading.
The only drawback is the camera but turns out it's much easier to carry a dedicated camera (Canon g7xm3 in my case) than a dedicated reading device / tablet.
I felt this way at one point and vocally proclaimed as such on here. My Fold 5 developed a bubble under the screen protector after about 18 months. I sent it into Samsung through the website to get it repaired. Whoever "repaired" it, just seemed to slice the screen protector down the middle with an knife so it had a big ugly line down the center. Predictably, it was full of bubbles again within a week. I'm not even bothering opening it anymore for fear that it will break the inner screen. Between this and the fact that I had another two Samsung phones that developed hardware faults making them unusable after 2 years of use, I'm absolutely done with Samsung. Before that, I had an iPhone that was still going strong after 7 years. I'm preordering an iPhone tomorrow and selling the Samsung. Doubt I will be venturing into the Android ecosystem again. Might get an Apple foldable depending on what the initial reports are like on durability after it's been around for a couple of years. The time sink of having to transfer a phone across is high and I really cba with doing it because of avoidable screen repair.
>I had another two Samsung phones that developed hardware faults making them unusable after 2 years of use, I'm absolutely done with Samsung
I haven't tried any foldable phones and I have no intention to anytime soon, but with other samsung phones my experience has been completely different. I've only ever used Samsung smartphones, and the only times they broke was when I dropped them or mishandled them myself somehow. My current one is past the 6 year mark, and I have no issues with it. It still keeps 48 hours of battery with my normal use (though that might not be saying much considering my normal use is different from most people's normal use of watching videos for hours)
My experience with 5 Samsung phones over 10ish years, last one being 2019:
Great hardware that nearly always impresses. Very infrequent hardware issues compared to its main competitors (in the android space).
Extremely annoying software experience. Locked bootloader aside, as I recognize that's only an issue for a very small group. But the software goes through these intense hills and valleys where you can go a long time without updates, with bugs, with bloat, with problems. Then a burst of updates that seem to address many of those issues, then it just slides back into the shit. And the amazing hardware is dragged down in this cycling, to the point where the phone will feel old at an accelerated rate. I've hard that exact complaint about apple and a few other android manufacturers many times but only Samsung has genuinely given me that experience.
It's very unfortunate. If they unlocked the bootloader I could bypass the software issues myself and have damn near the perfect phone.
I had a fold 3, and now a fold 6. The screen protectors are easily replaceable yourself. It's the only weakness on the phone I've found, and a cheap ($17ish) wear item. The replacement ones I get feel much nicer and thicker than the original.
I love the replacement matte inner screen protector on my fold 4. It's so much better than the glossy screen protector and it was cheap, and easy to install.
A forced reboot error first occurred between 6,000 and 10,000 folds, and the same error repeatedly appeared at roughly every 10,000 folds afterward (e.g., around 16,000, 26,000, etc.).
Around 46,000 folds, creaking noises started coming from the hinge.
At 75,000 folds, an unknown black liquid came out of the hinge, but it has not appeared again.
At 175,000 folds, all speakers (earpiece, top, and bottom) stopped working.
The hinge has become smoother. Free-stop still works, but elasticity seems to be lost.
The reboots at 10K intervals seems like a software problem fixable by an update.
The speakers failing at 175K folds seems like the major failing point. I suppose bluetooth would probably still be working so you could still limp through day-to-day activities.
If you prefer to carry a dedicated camera in addition to a phone, aren't you a far outlier? To the point that one of the most common sayings in photography is "the best camera is the one you carry" (even when it's the sub-par one).
I think that's really that most people don't know or don't care enough about photography. Which is fine. That's up to them. But some of us do care.
"The best camera is the one you carry" is about opportunistic capture of moments i.e. it's better to record them on anything than nothing. That doesn't always work. I've lost more moments than I gained on a smartphone camera which won't focus on what I want, does weird uncorrectable things with white balance, has a pretty nasty digital zoom, or has gunk on the lens from being handled.
Exactly! To add, if I take a dedicated camera with me it feels like a side quest permission to go out there and look for actual photography targets actively rather than just wait for an opportunity. It's kinda like taking a shovel to the beach - you'll end up digging some holes just because you took it.
That's fair. (Heading off topic:) My take on that saying is that I make art when the inspiration strikes. So I am often caught carrying a minimal amount of stuff but noticing something and wanting to play with it. My very mediocre 1st gen iPhone SE is indeed absurdly far in capabilities from my serious camera - but historically there have been far worse cameras. (And it has never been quite the same since I replaced the battery and I annoy my friends by tapping the phone so it will auto-focus.)
The phone camera is still very much functional but it's not newest gen Pixel. It probably matches most 2-4 year old slab phones. The slab cameras are actually very much in right now and my g7x I had for 5 years now has risen in value which basically never happened with cameras before.
Given the price and fragility of foldables, I’m happier to stick to a cheap phone with a small screen to minimise the urge to use it (second-hand iPhone 13 Mini), and carry around a Kobo for reading needs.
> I’m happier to stick to a cheap phone with a small screen to minimise the urge to use it (second-hand iPhone 13 Mini)
Me too, but this option is disappearing. As our minis reach end of life, I don't think we'll have other "small" options than foldables, unless you're willing to go for super niche android phones (eg unihertz)
Hopefully the foldables become more resilient by then
I fully expect to get 3-4 more years life out of my 13 Mini; hopefully by that point Apple will do another small(ish) phone release for people who are holding out.
Haven’t even had to replace the battery in our 13 Minis yet, so hoping as well for another 4 years. After that, I hope Apple has glued two small iPhone Airs together and made a foldable.
Yup, a friend of mine has been into folding phones for some years now, and he warned me that these foldables seem to last about two years before something happens. (He didn't quite specify what would happen, though.)
I should have noted, it doesnt look as good as a slab phone does after that period. The crease is now (at least to me) very noticable, but it does still work. I've been watching his to see if I should make the transition away from Apple back to Android haha.
I have one of the newer lowend Razrs. It wasn't that expensive, less than a base model iPhone and it actually helps me use my phone less because it takes intention to actually open it.
I'd still prefere regular phone (wouldn't mind something smaller, like 5,5" with bigger battery) and dedicated e-ink ebook reader... it's just more convenient and with it I'm guaratneed to be distraction free...
I also bought a 2nd hand Fold 4 for $700... it lasted a year before the wifi/bluetooth broke, it stopped folding all the way, and eventually stopped booting up.
Seem to always have reliability issues with Samsung phones. Hopefully the 6th iteration is more stable.
I had two friends that said the same thing and now both have iPhones. They got sick of constantly sending in their phones to be replaced for screen failures. One had a pixel other had a Samsung.
The one with a pixel final break was when he landed in Belize to start a vacation and the screen died. Entire vacation he had to borrow wife’s iPad mini to read.
Play Books is actually really underrated! It's quite minimal, cross platform with cloud state and does everything really well. One cool unique feature I found is that it can sync notes and highlights straight to a google drive folder.
I thought the idea of a folding phone was just a cash grab until I saw someone on the plane across the aisle from me interacting with one. It has been a while since I saw someone get so much enjoyment out of a device. The back and forth between folded and unfolded to read messages and watch movies/read a book was mesmerizing. It made me realize that this form factor could actually enhance the user experience in a meaningful way.
I genuinely think book reading is the killer app for foldable devices. A bigger screen for a movie or TV is nice to have, but not a game changer. When you have that much screen real estate you can get a really enjoyable experience reading a novel or just easily read a textbook or research paper in a way that's simply not possible on even the largest of what you might consider a typical size phone.
Plus, you no longer need to deal with buying and maintaining a separate device like an iPad! This is why I suspect Apple is dragging its feet on the foldable category, besides letting the screen technology mature. It will probably cannibalize some sales from that market segment.
I find my phone much more comfortable to hold than a book. It fits my hand.
You only read one sentence at a time anyway. I rather scroll, keeping the current sentence in the middle of the screen than jump around with my eyes in an open book, and having to turn pages, or keeping them flat.
Am I missing something? (Real question. I read a lot!)
Reading PDFs is the biggest case. PDFs do not (typically) dynamically reflow in a way that's usable and generally suck to read on a small screen as a result. Source: read a lot of PDFs on mobile.
Not how I read when I read on paper & this bothers me on a phone a lot.
I'm not functionally dyslexic, but all the words pop out at the same time, you could say I read verbs, then tense, nouns after and then I read adjectives in a sentence.
But English is also my second language, so my first language's grammar probably fits closer.
Oddly enough when I first encountered lisp, the nested pile of map, fold and filter was easier because of the well trained habit of restructuring after reading verbs.
Your eyes can skip around and read a lot faster. Most things I read have me skipping around quite a bit. The only time I'm straight-linear with reading is in fiction, and for that I've moved to audiobooks.
Fair question and I read a lot on my phone too! I think the use cases that come to mind for me are comics/graphic novels and research papers. Both of these are kind of annoying to read on phones right now.
Though I agree with you that a larger reading screen would be very nice, I doubt such an experience on a device that offers endless digital distractions will reverse this downward trend - not that you said it would.
Kindles and their competitors have pretty much perfected the devices for this market. They are cheap, high quality, and last long. The few people who like to read do not mind carrying a dedicated reader. However a foldable eink reader would be interesting.
It could go both ways though. Phones get more heavy use, and foldables will probably always be more fragile than iPads, so they might wind up with more customers replacing a more expensive device more often. iPads last a really long time, which was talked about as a problem for Apple's revenue. Some day we might even get a foldable iPad.
Also I doubt that Apple's foldable phone will cost the same or less than Samsung's, as is suggested in the article...
Exactly. Apple is adding so much to iPadOS 26 (e.g. new windowing features) that it resembles the Mac. The next foldable iPhone will be like the iPadOS prior to version 26, so that Apple can make sure iPadOS remains more powerful than iOS.
For your second, I think you don’t understand why people buy/use iPads. First off, I don’t really know anyone who uses an iPad mini for anything productive (other than as a test device). A 7-9” screen is just not useful compared to a 13” iPad for things like Sidecar or reading sheet music in live performances. The 7-9” screen being an unfolded phone doesn’t change this.
A folding iPhone could eat the iPad mini, but that’s never been a cash cow for Apple or something power users cared about - it’s more of an “iPod touch” for kids. (And frankly, the Switch 2 kind of obsoletes it.) The thing that would eat 13” iPads’ lunch is something more like Apple Vision.
Weirdly enough, the iPad Mini is probably the iPad most used for work. The size & weight are perfect for many scenarios. Pilots, warehouses, and field work of all sorts.
For me personally, it's my travel machine. I've done all sorts of things with it on the road. From SSH to using Photoshop to make some last minute edits. It (barely) fits in my pockets so I don't even need a bag for it. Probably my favorite machine ever at least in terms of form factor.
Screen size does seem to be a personal choice. For me, I've always liked small screens for portability. I'm the weirdo who actually got work done on the first gen Asus EEE PC and didn't mind it. But I can understand that wouldn't be for everyone.
The iPad Mini form factor with cell connectivity is pretty great when you're travelling light.
My normal international travel load-out is a backup smart phone + an 8" LTE tablet with eSIM + bluetooth keyboard. It's about as minimal as I can get while still having a real keyboard and functional screen size to handle travel logistics.
Pilots use iPads for all of the charts and checklists. Even having two iPads (one as a backup) is much lighter and thinner (and easier to update) than the paper copies it replaces.
The big future that I see for foldables is as tablets for note takers.
Microsoft and Apple have already proven that students are willing to shell out the money to buy $1000+ products just to take hand written digital notes on. If Samsung or someone else could create a foldable that's in the ~$1500 range that can fold out into the size of an ipad mini AND has a good pen usage and storage situation, I believe it will sell incredibly well.
It'd be so cool to be able to walk to a lecture with only your phone.
I used to take notes on my Newton MessagePad back at a time when college professors would _not_ allow folks to use laptops for notetaking --- agree, in addition to folding, you pretty much need a stylus for note-taking (and for an Apple Pencil, I'd worry about the "tick" one gets each time it's touched to the screen).
That said, these days I use a Samsung Galaxy Note 10+, Amazon Kindle Scribe w/ Premium Pen, Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360, and when at a desk, a MacBook and Wacom One display, all with Wacom EMR --- no folding devices, since there doesn't yet seem to be one which uses the normal frequencies (most recent foldables used the same frequency for the stylus as is usually used for the eraser?!?).
I'd give a lot for a competitor to the Lenovo Yoga Book 9i which used a Wacom EMR stylus, or for a phone which used a standard Wacom EMR stylus.
I’d be tempted by a foldable iPhone if (and only if) they have a stylus, but I don’t expect them to.
The form factor doesn’t lend itself to storing a comfortably sized “pencil” along with the phone, and god forbid an Apple accessory exist that doesn’t feel perfectly integrated with the product it goes with.
I did try one, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold for 6 months before going back to iOS (I'm too deep on the ecosystem, but I like to try Android again every once in a while).
I think I only used it unfolded like three times. It was pretty much pointless for me.
Anything I need a bigger screen for, I almost always have either my laptop or iPad with me for that. I don't WANT to do things on my phone, I actually want to use it less - a foldable offers the alternative deal, where you want to and actively use your phone for more and more tasks forgoing other devices.
It's only life changing if you use your phone for most of your computing. I don't, I tried a foldable and barely used it unfolded, just didn't "get it." If I need to do something that's frustrating on a phone screen, I don't use my phone - I almost always have my laptop with me, or my iPad near by. If I don't, it can probably wait until I get home anyway.
Consequently, probably why I might be "downgrading" from a pro max down to the new iPhone Air. No bulk, no excessive camera array...just a thin, light phone.
That's exactly my phone use. I still want a fast phone because a laggy interface will make my phone use even more annoying for the use I do have, but trying a foldable for a week or so it just felt like something clunkier to carry around in between using my tablet or desktop.
Then you got the wrong foldable phone - you should have gone for the flip - that's way smaller and more pocketable than air. Will probably get you similar battery stats.
Sounds horrible to me. Why would I want to do the extra step of flipping things open and typing in two form factors. But then I’m not really watching long form videos on my phone so maybe I’m just not the target market.
Except e.g. the 7.6" Pixel Fold screen is still only a third of the area of a 13" MacBook (not to mention a desktop).
To people (like me) who want bigger screens, your comment reads akin to "Imagine that you need to grab your phone because you need a 6" screen, now instead you can just flip out a second screen from your Apple Watch and have a 2.5" screen."
Hey, I can relate, I’ve got a projector in my basement. Watching anything cinematic on a 50” display feels pretty anemic in comparison unless I sit awkwardly close to the TV.
Multi app works pretty well too, when I need to cross reference between apps throwing them each up on the split halves is way better than swapping back and forth.
I had never seen one in the wild until I made a new friend recently, who has one of the foldable Samsung devices. My initial impression was that it is clunky, way too thick/large for comfortable pocket storage+running and it looks cheap for how much it cost... and last week my friend said he got his first ever dead pixel of any of his devices on the foldable phone. Take that opinion and info as you will.
The Fold 7, new this year, is hardly clunky. It's less than 1mm thicker than an iPhone Pro when folded and is only 4.2mm when open where it has an 8" screen. It's surprisingly un-clunky.
I know less than ten people with foldable phones, but without fail they all claim that the screen is durable, but I have yet to see any foldable phone without a cracked screen after a few years.
I've had 2 Samsung fold phones, no dead pixels. They have been perfect, and very much not "clunky". "looks cheap"? How? It's probably the most well built phone I've ever had, and I've had all the brands, even an iPhone that didn't work well (remember "you're holding it wrong"?).
Screen is really good on the google folding 9. On the other hand my gf broke her iphone screen twice in one week (the second time a few days after getting an official repair...)
Most my phones are the low end free-to-get-you-to-sign-up models.
AT&T doesn't have low end Motorolas so I bought an unlocked, guaranteed to work with AT&T, sub $300 one directly off motorola.com and took it to the AT&T store.
Low-end Android all have the same nagging adware or if they're not nagging they're definitely selling your data way more than flagships where customer UX is a priority.
>they're definitely selling your data way more than flagships where customer UX is a priority.
I'd to see some evidence for this claim. It seems to be a ridiculous offhand claim to make in this era of late stage capitalism. Flagship phones owners are wealthier, their data is more valuable for customer acquisition. Why in god's name would those penny pinchers leave that kind of money on the table? It makes no sense. It's not like flagship phone owners can track whether their data is being sold any better than low end phone owners.
They might make it harder to turn data collection off in low end phones, but that says nothing of their desire to be able to sell the data of flagship phone owners.
Except not now with Google's changes to Android security patches moving to quarterly instead of monthly so they can cover for shitty OEMs that don't push updates.
You don't think those vulnerabilities are going to leak out during the 4 months that OEMs have them before patches are pushed out?
Google has chosen to sacrifice security for marketing.
Been using a flip for four years (Samsung) and will buy another when the time comes (not necessarily Samsung).
Ever wanted a smaller phone? That's a flip phone, it just happens to expand when you need it. Ever drop your phone and damage the screen ? The closed flip phone is super sturdy. Ever wanted to put your phone on the table and use it with one hand, laptop style? Flip. Even in general use, having it slightly bent towards you is a nicer experience that a fully flat phone.
Yes, it has a slight crease in the middle, it has never bothered me even a little. And now, there's an actual microcrack across the crease, doesn't really bother me either, but for some people it might. Look forward to improvements in the next generations.
I had the Flip 2, 3, and 5. I just switched to the Moto Razr Ultra and I feel like it is even better. The external screen works almost like the internal screen, making it extremely easy to use. Samsung locks down their external screen pretty hard and you need a lot of work arounds that still don't give me the same functionality as the Razr.
I also got the Clicks physical keyboard case for it, which turns it into a modern Blackberry type phone. I love it. The physical keyboard means no on-screen keyboard taking up your external screen space. I only actually open my phone a few times a day, which really helps keep doomscrolling at bay. Full discloser, the keyboard isn't perfect and definitely has some quirks and tradeoffs but on the whole I'm glad I got it.
When it goes on sale, I'm going to give it a go with the Moto Razr 2025 with the Clicks keyboard case. Closed, it looks almost exactly like an old Blackberry, but it can flip open to a normal-ish (coming from an iPhone Mini very tall) screen when needed.
I bought a zfold 7 about a month ago, it has been without a doubt the coolest new device I have purchased in many years. It's unbelievably thin, if you use it in normal phone mode you can't even tell that it's a fold. I have installed so many fun apps. I downloaded Mihon which is a manga/comic reader and I've read the first 10 volumes of Berserk, it's such a great experience reading manga on the fold screen. I also got NetherSX2 which is a PS2 emulator, it's insane to me that a phone can emulate PS2 games perfectly, I played thru a good bit of Kingdom Hearts one night with a Switch controller connected via bluetooth. I also downloaded ReadEra and have read some of the Malazan fantasy series on the device. I can play Oldschool Runescape while watching YouTube videos at the same time. I have RVNC viewer and have used it to connect to a Linux system downstairs to manage one of my systems. The split keyboard on fold mode is super easy and fast to type on, I'm using it right now to send this message. The web browsing experience is great because unlike iPhone, I can have uBlock origin and desktop mode websites look great on the fold screen.
Having both a phone and tablet in your pocket is phenomenal. I don't think I can go back at this point. Apple knows this, which is imo why the rumor is the new iPhone 17 will have a fold option for a higher price. If you think it's gimmicky, you haven't tried it yet.
Personally I think they're ugly. They might have some functional advantage, that I don't know. I believe they're going to be the cyber truck of mobile phones, primarily a status symbol.
Yes but it's not ugly in the look/fashion sense, it's just ugly because it doesn't match a reality where it has a purpose.
Either they have good form factor closed but they suck open or they have good form factor open but they suck closed.
They could go with no external screen but it would be much more annoying to use. And I think it says something fundamental about smartphones, that Steve Jobs intuitively understood: it's a good tool when you can pull it out of your pocket and use it in seconds (preferably one-handed when possible).
Having a bigger screen but that needs to be unfolded doesn't add any benefits to this primary need and ends up requiring a lot of compromises (weight/volume, compromising pocket ability) for uses cases that are infrequent and would be better served by a typical table anyway. Funnily enough, in those situations you are quite likely to have the bag to carry this solution so the foldable phone becomes moot.
To make things worse, they are ridiculously expensive, often more than what it would cost to buy both an equivalent phone and tablet, which is at the same time stupid and genius.
And yes, this is precisely why they are a social status thing. You have to be quite affluent to buy something so practically stupid, you are basically burning cash.
I find folding phones interesting for what they so aptly demonstrate about life in general: no matter how hard you try, you can't have it both ways.
I'll say this: I live in France and when Apple announced the first iPhone, I imported it from the US at great costs. So, it's not like if I am a luddite, I'm just able to understand what's good and useful while you may not.
The iPhone was released nearly 20 years ago. This would be like someone in 2007 bragging that they aren't a Luddite because they bought windows 1.0 when it came out.
What are you even saying? It's funny you think I'm bragging.
Here is the thing, people are buying foldables only to show off, the functionality/usefulness makes no sense for the vast majority of people. Which is why they are still expensive and it will stay that way.
Even tech reviewers with infinite choices and zero affordability issues are not using them. If they were any good, they would be using them daily, but it's not the case.
What I'm saying about the first iPhone is that it was good and useful on release day, even though it was a flawed product missing many things that would only come later. And the cost wasn't a problem.
We have had many generations of foldables with improvement/refinements everywhere and they are still nowhere close to being ubiquitous or mainstream.
At its 4th generation, Apple was selling 50 million iPhones globally even though it was one of the most expensive phones you could buy.
We are in the 6th or 7th generation of foldable and they are not reaching anywhere near those numbers. Even if the price would come close to a regular smartphone it's doubtful that most would pay up because there are other compromises.
Fundamentally, foldables are niche products for tech geeks or people who like to show off, they will stay niche, just like VR and 3D before them.
I have been right on both of those before, do you want to make a bet?
Why would I stop arguing if I like it? Why even be here otherwise?
I have various Samsung foldables in hand, yes. I am definitely impressed by how far they have gotten but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
The flip style is just plain dumb. External display is almost useless and you need to open it to do anything useful. They are smaller when closed but also thicker which just aggravates the bulk at the bottom of your pocket when regular sized phones were fine thickness and heigh wise; and the weight is about the same. For all those compromises you just get a longer screen, which is stupid since the primary mode of interaction is scrolling. Increasing height without increasing width in proportion is useless, you can just fit more stuff vertically that were already convenient to scroll through.
Foldables have more practicality since the external screen is often fully featured and can be used like a regular phone. But that's not a very strong argument since that's what is asked from any basic smartphone, down to the dirt-cheap ones.
When open they have decent usefulness at first glance but nowhere near enough to make up for the compromises they require of you. The aspect ratio is always fucked up in order to maintain the external display viability. Even for basic stuff like watching videos, they have a bigger screen for sure but a big part of it goes unexploited. For many typical apps they don't make good use of the larger area because those apps are optimized for scrolling since that's the primary way of managing content for all smartphones (this is very similar to the bigger area in bigger phones that just go to waste for displaying white space, except worse).
The "killer" feature is supposed to be multitasking, which for sure they are definitely better at than regular phones. Except the primary limitation for multitasking on phones isn't just the display size. You still have to rely on softwares that are made for quick interactions with a lot of space used for touch target so it is usable with your fingers. There is no hover state and all inputs are made for ease of use primarily, not efficient workflow. Typing can be better at the expense of a large display area for it which largely defeats the purpose of a bigger display. If you were in need of productivity, it makes no sense to still be slowed down by inefficient input and lackluster software. At this point you might as well carry a tablet with a keyboard or a small laptop, if you are going to have enough downtime that this is a reasonable expectation the immediacy of something that you can get out of your pocket isn't very relevant.
What's more, because of physical constraint their battery life just sucks. They need to be thin to even be viable, so you end up with less space for batteries because a lot of it is used for the displays and mechanism, yet they consume more power because of the bigger display. So, even for a use case I can get behind like reading, they end up giving you less. You have more space but with a bad aspect ratio and you just end up killing the battery faster compromising the phone viability for the other stuff a phone is useful for in everyday life. You are promised more but in practice you just get less.
When Jobs announced and showed how the iPhone worked, I knew right away they had found the correct recipe. That's because I was using a Windows Mobile "smartphone" at this point and I had experienced first-hand how bad it was in practice at most things. It required stylus input most of the time, creating too much friction for most quick interactions that you require from something living in your pocket. The breakthrough of the iPhone wasn't the hardware; it was the careful design of the software around it that allowed fast and easy interaction for most useful things (even the way you would be able to navigate in desktop class web page before website became fully mobile was quite good). It cames at the cost of functionality and efficiency in the software but that was exactly what made it viable as a pocketable device.
Foldables reintroduce friction while only offering minor benefits that are still worse than something like an iPad Mini that wouldn't add much more friction (instead of having it in your pocket, you need to carry in a small bag) but provide a better experience for basically everything.
There is also the unavoidable problem of the crease (the annoying reflections/diffraction it creates) and the worse feeling/experience of a display that isn't glass covered. To top it off, you end up with durability problems that are plaguing the whole category and aren't solvable unless they come with some glass that would basically be magic considering the science on that.
The reality is that foldables are fundamentally flawed and there is no amount of technical refinement that will change that. To keep the typical smartphone usefulness, you need to compromise the tablet experience and vice-versa. They end up being worse at both use cases while not even saving you money.
This fact actually should actually tell you something: they are more expensive than buying both a regular smartphone and small tablet. It makes no sense because they use less materials by definition and the engineering costs should be spread across all units. Since the volume is so small that is not the case. That means they are supply driven items, something that manufacturers are pushing to increase the profit per item and absolutely not something that people are asking for.
Which is exactly why they are a show-off luxury item, they make no financial sense and this is actually their primary feature. It allows you to announce to the world you have enough disposable income to not care about practicality. They are just like the impractical sports cars a young fool would buy before he gets financially wiser or the absurdly expensive mechanical watch a successful business executive would buy to announce his success.
Except that instead of targeting tiny markets those things have, they are targeting the upper middle class. The per unit profit is lower but the volume is potentially much bigger, there is money to be made thus it gets made.
They remind me of the "multifunction" cooking robots (like the Thermomix) that promise to do everything yet cannot do anything well and efficiently. They have motors that are too slow to make a good blender but too little torque to make a good processor. The jug they use is too large for proper cavitation yet too small to accept raw ingredients without preprocessing. And they don't cost less than the combination of devices with equal capabilities. They are driven by the same marketing fundamentals, as something that adds convenience but actually loses efficiency and quality if you were to try using them for what they pretend to do. Unsurprisingly they target bored middle-class women just like much of the large smartphones, and, ultimately the foldables.
So here it is, I understand why Foldable exists. I get the "reasons" some will get one and I find the engineering prowess very cool. But they will never be the "next big unlock". And they don't have to be, they are not a tool in any practical sense. That's fine but it's just not for me.
It is just below 9mm which I'll agree is impressive. Most of the dimensions are in the acceptable range compared to "Pro" models of competitive brands.
But I find those already too much, and a pain to carry in most of my pockets.
It also cost over 2000€ which is more than a Pro iPhone plus iPad combo, while only giving you the benefit of being somewhat pocketable. It is not a better phone and a much worse tablet.
If the thing is going too annoying to carry in pocket (particularly when cycling) and requires me to get a bag, I might as well have a bag big enough to carry the superior option which also happens to be cheaper and will get much better battery life (among other things).
It's a niche show-off device of little practicality. It is like small sports coupé cars. I understand why some get them but they will always be a way to attract attention more than anything else.
They're tech demonstrators as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to buy them at 2000€ but they will be 800€ at some point in the near future and I will almost for sure buy one then.
Well if they were to reach that price, they would make a bit more sense since it would mean mostly giving up battery life for a bit more versatility.
But I seriously doubt it will happen in any reasonable time frame. They are fundamentally supply driven, pushed by companies marketing tech they want to sell for a bigger profit.
To become a commodity, the "pro" phones would first need to come down in price so that they are not such a big differentiating factor. Yet the companies keep adding more stuff to those in order to have the price stay around 1K.
Because the rate of improvement has slowed, we can observe the start of price compression, mid-range slab phones have become much more usable and fully featured. But there is a long way to go, Apple has only started this year to trickle down some of the pro features to their base model (mostly pro motion).
To get to the 800 figure you need to have regular fully featured slab phones at around the 500 mark otherwise it doesn't make economic sense for companies to sell them at this price.
Considering where we are at this price point with the iPhone 16e (Apple is basically the price setter for much of the market), I wouldn't hold my breath.
I actually predict the reverse. Slab phones will keep getting better in the mid-range, to the point where it's going to be hard to argue for any other choice for most people. Cheap phones will get good enough to the point that they are not completely horrible but will stay a relatively poor value, using older tech in exchange or moderate savings. High-end phones will stay expensive (or even increase in price sightly) with various differentiating "features" and convenience that are unessential but good for bragging point or displaying your superiority. Foldables will stay at the apex and try to have everything of the high-end slabs but with the folding functionality as a bonus.
It is basically what the car market is, which is almost a commodity nowadays. You have the cheap cars that offer everything truly necessary for basic use but make some compromises on quality and technological refinement. Then you have the mid-range that has basically everything you could need at good enough quality/confort level while being technically up to date. And at the high-end of the market, you have the luxurious cars, German style, where you get everything a mid-range car would get you but with better quality and some features that are mostly about bragging rights and social status.
In getting commoditized the smartphone will follow a somewhat normal distribution when considering volume shipped with a larger share of the profits coming from the far end. I expect foldables to stay in that far end for quite a long time.
After the iPhone launch, smartphones overtook every other type of phone at every single price point in just a few years. If foldable were going to take over, it would have happened by now, but volume has stalled and even regressed. Maybe they can get it going with major price drops but it hasn't been necessary for the slab smartphones, in fact as usefulness increased, prices increased as well.
I'm going to add that those market dynamics are exactly why we are getting an iPhone Air this year. It is a phone purely made as a differentiation factor to allow for a bigger price while not offering much practical value in return.
It is made for people who would spend more than what the base iPhone sell for but also don't really care about any of the features of the "Pro" models because they wouldn't use them much and wouldn't be able to tell the difference in everyday use while paying the cost of weight/size (I don't know why they made the screen bigger than the base pro, there is probably something supply side pushing for this decision).
That way they can sell more status than a base phone would provide (that is hilarious equal or better in most relevant specs) while keeping the BOM very close and thus get more profit. Outside of this the phone makes no sense; it's thinness and weight saving have no practical value because they are so small that they cannot fundamentally change the typical experience of using a smartphone.
If Apple can ever get behind the durability/quality compromise of a foldable display it is probably a "try run" for an Apple foldable that would be likely sold at twice the price while not increasing the BOM anywhere near that. It won't be better at much of anything than their pro models but that is basically the point: keep expanding the price range at the high end where profits are still to be made. They know that their basic phone will eventually have to offer even more or lower in price to stay competitive (which is why they increase the base storage ahead of the competition this year). Apple has always been able to extract more profit by staying ahead of the curve in this way. They intuitively understand the social value of technology more than the technology itself, that has made their success. High-end Androids are niche for basically the reverse reason of high-end iPhones dominating the top of the price brackets: no matter how good they get, they will never provide the same social status and coolness of an iPhone. It is thus a bit "stupid" to overspend on a smartphone and it not being an iPhone. Androids' manufacturers have struggled to make their stuff better for this reason, volumes at the high-end cannot warrant the same investment than Apple is able to make. They are constrained by bottom-up economics while Apple has fun with trickle-down economics.
For this reason, if Apple is ever to release a foldable, I expect the volume of Android foldables to decrease or lower their price, in the process rendering their primary appeal less effective, still resulting in lower volume over time.
That's the thing, all phones are ugly, but folding phones bring such life improvements that nobody seems to care.
I bought mine because it's useful, it's weird to read that someone would think that it's a status symbol. Are noise canceling headphones a status symbol too for you?
Noise cancelling is a feature and useful. Airpods? Annoying, I can't tell if the person on the sidewalk is trippin' or talking to someone on the phone via their difficult to see airpods.
I mean who cares that much what their metal slab looks like? I jest because I know lots of people do, but it really should be a thing primarily for function. I'd like a foldable if it had as nice cameras as my current phone.
If you make a lot of selfies then the camera is actually better.
When making selfies on a regular phone, you use the front-facing camera which is often sub-par. But with the Samsung Folds, you use the main camera for selfies (you flip open the phone, and see the viewfinder on the outside screen).
Feels like the iPhone Air is just a test run for Apple's own folding phone. If you attach two iPhone Airs with a hinge and a little extra screen to create one seamless display, and boom, there's your folding iPhone.
If you attached 2 iPhone Airs, you'd have a chonky foldable at 11.2mm getting into territory where people complained with the previous Samsung.
Samsung's current, Fold 7, is 8.9mm closed. Turns out you can actually go thinner than a thin slab like Samsung Edge (5.8mm) or iPhone Air (5.6mm) because you can move components out of one side and put them in the other, including battery. This lets Samsung build a foldable that's 4.2mm when open, meaningfully slimmer than either the Edge or Air.
My guess is Apple's book-style foldable will be ~4mm open and ~8.5mm closed and just edges out Samsung's Fold 8 when they ship next year.
I've had a flip 3 and flip 5 which both had screen and hinge problems within a year. I love the form factor but just don't take it to the beach.
My flip 5 inner screen is currently unusable so I'm stuck using the small square cover screen which I'm enjoying quite a bit too. I don't know if my next phone should be a flip phone or a small phone, but nothing gets as small or as good hardware as the front cover of these flip phones, vs other small phones
I responded in another thread about the iPhone Air that I wanted something from Apple that's smaller than my current iPhone 13 mini. There are at least two of us!
Samsung Folds 1-6 are kinda bad, much worse than competitors. Samsung Fold 7 is really good, so are Honor phones (V3, V5). Honor folds are sold on Amazon in Europe. Currently own V3 one, 1 year in, so far so good, feels really sturdy.
For me, it's the first true upgrade in the design of a phone in a long time. It's not a slightly better CPU or battery, but a different way to work with this key device in my life. I think it will be the default phone format in ~5 years, especially for younger people.
e-waste? Their latest phone is running the very same version as the four-year-old Pixel 5a; Android 14.
Incidentally... not only does my Pixel 5a still runs software distributed through the Play Store just fine, its battery life is still quite acceptable.
If you can find me credible evidence that Unihertz will support the device for 5+ years, delivering major version upgrades and timely security patches, then I'll take back what I said. In 2025, a lax approach to the OS lifecycle (especially with security patches) isn't legitimate and respectable.
> If you can find me credible evidence that Unihertz will support the device for 5+ years, delivering major version upgrades and timely security patches...
You don't even get that with most Pixel phones. Through to the Pixel 5 family, you only get three years of updates, period. Through to the Pixel 7 family, you get an additional two of security updates. It's not until the Pixel 8 family that you're getting what you demand.
That's a lot of "e-waste" that Google only recently stopped generating. ;)
But, honestly? I'm not sure why you consider the current five-years-of-updates policy to not be creating an unacceptable amount of e-waste. I have (and still use) nearly-twenty-year-old laptops with the latest Linux kernel and desktop environment software (& etc) versions available. They work just fine. The only maintenance required has been battery replacement and occasional thermal paste replacement. [0]
Only five years of updates? That's an absolutely absurd policy.
[0] Though, it's not clear that the thermal paste actually needed to be replaced... it was just fun to break out the screwdrivers and service manual.
> That's a lot of "e-waste" that Google only recently stopped generating. ;)
Yep, agreed. While my "e-waste" epithet was deliberately inflammatory, I really do have a problem with what they and others were doing before. Thankfully, with newer Pixels (and Galaxies, iirc), that's getting better on the Android side.
> I'm not sure why you consider the current five-years-of-updates policy to not be creating an unacceptable amount of e-waste. I have (and still use) nearly-twenty-year-old laptops with the latest Linux kernel and desktop environment software (& etc) versions available.
You're getting sidetracked from my original point (that Unihertz's practically nonexistent support disqualifies it for me), but I would certainly like to have higher standards! Core smartphone hardware has matured to the point where I would like to see 10+ year lifetimes.
However, you're making a false equivalence here; a smartphone is at the mercy of the vendor to provide updates, while a laptop (thanks to commoditized hardware and a lot of work in the Linux kernel) has a more stable base to work from. Again, if we could reach that place for smartphones, I would be into it. But until we're at the point where you can viably buy a 10+ year-old phone and install a supported operating system (where "supported" includes critical firmware updates), this is a bad comparison.
> ...my original point [was] ... that Unihertz's practically nonexistent support disqualifies it for me...
You are aware that a lot of Android's security-relevant stuff is provided in one or more "apps" [0] that get regularly updated? IIRC, way back in the day Google used to ship all of the system software in one immutable blob that relied on OTA updates. However, Google found that telcos would often take way too long to approve handset updates... so Google split most of the security-relevant code out into something whose update system they fully controlled.
1) Do you know how much security-relevant stuff is contained in the base OS vs those "apps"?
2) Were you aware that Android 14 is still a supported version of Android?
3) Were you aware that Android 13 is also still supported?
4) Did you know that those split out "apps" that I was talking about support all the way back to Android 6?
> However, you're making a false equivalence here...
Nope. You're thinking much too narrowly.
> ...a smartphone is at the mercy of the vendor to provide updates, while a laptop (thanks to commoditized hardware and a lot of work in the Linux kernel) has a more stable base to work from.
You can select laptops that have components that don't work with Linux, or only work with particular kernel versions. That "lot" of work in the Linux kernel that you refer to? A fair chunk of it is "just" working with the various device manufacturers to open source and mainline their drivers.
If Google gave a shit about e-waste, they would have at minimum gotten the relevant phone manufacturers to give Google a source code license to the drivers & etc for the relevant phones and permission to adapt that software to newer kernels and ship compiled binaries in AOSP and Google Android.
But, they didn't do that. So, they clearly don't care.
> Core smartphone hardware has matured to the point where I would like to see 10+ year lifetimes.
We could have seen 10+ year software-support-lifetimes from the phones that shipped with the first commercially-released version of Android. Go take a gander at the huge array of weird-ass one-off device drivers in Linux mainline. "Phone hardware was too immature for it to be adapted to later kernel versions" is a bogus statement.
> You are aware that a lot of Android's security-relevant stuff is provided in one or more "apps" [0] that get regularly updated.
Yes, I am aware.
> 1) Do you know how much security-relevant stuff is contained in the base OS vs those "apps"?
No, I'm not very knowledgeable about where the lines get drawn, especially for non-Play-related components. It is a relevant point to make though, and is definitely crucial to this topic. However, from what I can infer (e.g. from blogs and mastodon threads by the GrapheneOS folks), there is plenty of security-relevant OS-level stuff that needs patching over the lifecycle of a device. And firmware-level stuff is almost equally as important. Both these OS-level and firmware-level things are out of scope for these apps that Google pushes.
> 2) Were you aware that Android 14 is still a supported version of Android?
> 3) Were you aware that Android 13 is also still supported?
> 4) Did you know that those split out "apps" that I was talking about support all the way back to Android 6?
Yes. I couldn't have told you that it was Android 6 off the top of my head, but that timeline sounds about right.
> You can select laptops that have components that don't work with Linux, or only work with particular kernel versions. That "lot" of work in the Linux kernel that you refer to? A fair chunk of it is "just" working with the various device manufacturers to open source and mainline their drivers.
That is a good chunk of what I'm referring to, yes. Also in-scope is working with manufactures (of both the device and its components) to provide firmware updates e.g. via fwupd. Afaiu, the baseband for mobile handsets is especially important because it's a highly-privileged component that is
> If Google gave a shit about e-waste, they would have at minimum gotten the relevant phone manufacturers to give Google a source code license to the drivers & etc for the relevant phones and permission to adapt that software to newer kernels and ship compiled binaries in AOSP and Google Android.
> But, they didn't do that. So, they clearly don't care.
I more or less agree with you. But my point isn't that Google cares about e-waste. Rather, my point is that devices with longer lifecycles (e.g. Pixels) are superior to devices with short lifecycles (e.g. Unihertz devices). Which is a pity, because I love so much about the Unihertz design. Almost perfect for me.
> We could have seen 10+ year software-support-lifetimes from the phones that shipped with the first commercially-released version of Android. Go take a gander at the huge array of weird-ass one-off device drivers in Linux mainline. "Phone hardware was too immature for it to be adapted to later kernel versions" is a bogus statement.
I think you've picked out some very specific parts of my response and fixated on those. What I'm saying is that you cannot, in fact, pick up a 10 year-old handset and use it with up-to-date software and firmware[0]. My requirement/desire (which others may not share) is that I should be able to buy a new handset and use it for a bare minimum of 5+ years. As far as I can see, Unihertz's devices do not meet even that pitifully low bar.
[0] Tbh, firmware update support varies greatly for laptop and desktop hardware too. I'm no expert, but seems like lots of room for improvement there.
Do you actually mean "flip"? Because when open, with the screen opened upwards, they have roughly the same dimensions as any modern slab phone. Then it'd come down to whether your hand is big enough to type one-handed on that formfactor (a few women, some men).
If you mean "fold", then probably only while closed, subject to the same hand-size limits. While open, with the screen opened to the left, like a book, they're quite a bit wider than even the largest human hand could reasonably type on.
I still don't think I'll ever be able to trust a foldable phone. Doesn't matter how many videos you show me of "look, we folded it 200,000 times and it didn't break!", I've repaired enough broken wires and accidentally broken enough ribbon cables to want those things as far from my pocket as possible.
Samsung is no longer leading the pack for folding. They refuse to innovate; Fold 7 is almost identical to Fold 4. Cameras are sub-par and they removed pen support. Meanwhile Honor Magic V5 has pen support on both screens, top of the range cameras, silicon-carbide batteries, and is 4.1mm thick unfolded!
Almost identical? The Fold 4 was 14.2mm thick and weighed 263g while the Fold 7 is 8.9mm and weighs 215g.
The Z Fold 4 feels like two flagships stacked in your pocket. The Fold 7 is lighter than an iPhone Pro max and only a vinyl sticker thicker. It feels identical to a flagship in your pocket but it's got an 8" screen. Not innovative? Where's Apple's innovation toward an 8" smartphone?
Yes, it's 30% thinner... it still has no innovation with cameras, new battery technology, and removal of pen support? I am not comparing it to apple, I'm comparing it to Honor, OnePlus/Vivo, Xiaomi - China has far more development in the folding phone sector at the moment. Their phones have been consistently thinner and lighter and Samsung is only just beginning to catch up.
I have had the fold 7 for 5 weeks (since release day).
It's fantastic. My daughter won't touch any other phone now - she loves the big screen.
My only gripe is that the fold is a bit tricky to open, otherwise, it's the big breakthrough in phones we have been waiting 10 years for.
Apple are in a bind here since the bend/crease will degrade over time. Other manufacturers get a pass on this sort of stuff (just look at Pixel phones not making emergency calls for a prime example), but apple will be hit with fines and class action lawsuits.
Apple sometimes manages to wait out bad ideas: they never gave into the bad idea of touchscreen "convertible" laptops, just conceding the touch bar which is now extinct.
IMO the touchbar was the least-bad thing about my touchbar 2017 MBP. The butterfly keyboard, flexgate, the USB-C ports that lost their ability to retain cables after like 20 insertions, and the overheating and quickly-degrading battery were much bigger issues.
I didn't really get much value out of the touchbar (never really used any per-app touchbar functionality), but it was mostly fine -- I adjusted to the touchbar escape key pretty quickly.
I wasn't trying to be generous. I was making a nod toward something like malicious compliance. I used to have a big old Mercedes sedan that had the worst cupholder in automotive history that would break as soon as possible. It was designed to pop out of a slot in the center console. But real German car drivers finish their coffee before stepping into the car. That's how I see the touch bar. It was meant to be awful.
> the bad idea of touchscreen "convertible" laptops
Is it such a bad idea? I use a convertible Thinkpad to take handwritten notes as well as usual laptop duties. Perhaps it just doesn't fit your usecase, it seems that plenty of these laptops are still being made today.
Granted, my previous Gen 1 Thinkpad had constant motherboard and memory issues - not sure if design flaw, lemon, or otherwise. To their credit, Lenovo warranty repaired it and eventually gave an upgrade (my current device) for no charge.
They never got any significant fine for bendgate, "you're holding it wrong", problematic butterfly keyboards or secretly slowing down iphones due to degraded batteries.
They got lawsuits because they purposely chose a battery that would not be sufficient after a few years of use because they wanted a thin phone, and instead of copping to that and providing support for users to cheaply and easily replace such underspecced batteries, they silently updated their OS to just throttle itself to death to "fix" it.
These batteries were not fit for purpose. The phone design was defective. It literally could not manage after normal and expected degradation.
Imagine if, after Microsoft failed to build the Xbox 360 correctly, they just silently throttled all the machines to reduce the chance they would fail, rather than what they had to do, which was replace all the defective machines, 25% of the fleet, on their own dime.
In most countries that aren't the USA, consumers have a right to expect their products to work for some time and be fit for purpose. Apple blatantly violated that right, and used a quiet software update to hide that.
Apple loves to just deny and ignore their design failures. It used to be the norm for Macbooks to just cook their GPU to death, and apple would always refuse to acknowledge such things until they settled the lawsuit and quietly put up some sort of "we will fix this at your expense" program.
Well not really. Apple ignored bendgate for ages, they ignored butterfly issues for ages, antennagate as well - to whicjbt they told customers "you're holding it wrong".
As for other manufacturers not being held liable, Galaxy Note 7 had plenty of related lawsuits and customer action holding them accountable amongst many other cases of the same.
The newest thin fold looks amazing but I can't justify a $2K phone idk maybe I'm just poor. Like I used to want a Lamborghini Aventador but now I just want a Lotus Exige. $300K seems too much too me but again is it a poor/mindset thing. I think a land would be better use of that money.
Mindset as in levels... I used to be afraid of my $30K student debt while I was in school thinking getting an engineering job that pays $60K would be great but now I make more than that and my debt is also beyond $30K so yeah levels.
lol, what is going on inside this comment, you're like whiplashing between having preferences and explaining why you should want fancy things but then actually you don't.
like... it's completely okay to not want something expensive not because you're poor but because you just don't want to spend money on it; your preferences for what's worth money to you don't have to be justified to anyone else. Except for maybe your family.
Personally I don't have any desire to buy any of those expensive things at all, because I don't even notice their existence, but that's just me. Seems better to be minimalistic. Similarly, to not have any debt, because why would you want to be more stressed and tied to a job than the minimum possible? But maybe it's different if your friends / social circle cares about shiny things or something.
The car thing I like driving fast/sporty cars, cheapest one for performance would be an older Corvette but yeah (not saying Lambo is performance, that one it's the looks, Exige though is both though different eg. acceleration/curve handling vs. top speed).
I'm just saying, there was a guy I was talking to who owned a Lambo and he's like "if it went up in flames I'd be fine", it's like I have to get to that headspace or maybe I'm not built that way not sure
But yeah I do go back and forward between wanting things/feeling guilty for being better off than others
It sounds like you're trying to feel what you're supposed to feel according to other people, and then feeling anxious about that's not how you actually feel? which sounds hard. I'm pretty sure the only way to be that makes any sense, however, is to feel what you actually feel, and if someone tries to make that seem wrong or bad, tell them (mentally or out loud) to fuck off. It's not possible to force yourself to feel differently than you feel--that's, like, what a feeling is. If something makes you think you should modify your feelings, it's wrong, like it's a complete category error; you can only react to them, not will them to change.
Not that I don't fall in the same trap, but, y'know, it's an aspiration.
and personally I'd judge the hell out of someone who owned a lambo and didn't care about it going up in flames. We get it, they want people to think they're so rich that they don't care about their own possessions. All I hear is a person try to say certain things in order to make you find them impressive.
the fold 7 genuinely made me want to get a foldable for the first time, was that sleek. if it wasn't for being captive to the apple ecosystem i would strongly consider it (and may do so).
i think with agentic coding now my ideal setup would be to be able to walk away and remote in from my heavy desktop/laptop w/ just my phone and check in on stuff and do some light work, etc.
obviously i would still have my laptop but i wouldn't have to lug it around everywhere.
I gave that a try, but it wasn't particularly economic.
I considered buying a keyboard for this case. I then decided against it. Probably carrying a MacBook Air makes more sense if I want to get work done on the go.
That said, I'm happy with my new Pixel 9 PF. It's better than the iPhone 16 Pro Max.
I also own various Apple devices, but I can't say there's any ecosystem integration I particularly miss.
Instead of iCloud I just use Google Drive now. I can still do facetime calls on my Mac. Also I continue to use the Home app on the iPhone.
At some point when second-hand folding phones decrease in cost I'd like to get one as a second device just as a compact pocketable datasheet/PDF reader for engineering/electronics work. I think having a tablet sized screen without the bulk would be a huge bonus.
I recently tried an old industrial head-mounted display (Realwear HMT-1), but the display resolution is not good.
I was sceptical about this for factor seeing as it seemed like a gimmicky throwback to the early to mid 2000s.
But honestly, now that I've played around with Samsungs offerings I get it. Back in the day phones had quite a bit of personality, and Samsung really nailed that aspect.
I still do not understand the appeal of a folding phone. I mean, phones are solid devices now, and they work for years upon years if you don't have some kind of mishap. Putting a hinge in the display 100% is creating a weak point in that display. It's very likely going to reduce lifespan for an expensive device.
I get gadgetlust, sure, but is it more that that?
The other thing is that even if I wanted a folding display, it wouldn't be enough to get me to jump platforms.
I think there are two factors that drive the purchase. Primarily - it's a status symbol. I am reminded of the scene with Paul Allen's business card...
But also that it's useful when you want a larger display surface in a more portable form. Like watching films on an airplane or reading documents without having to constantly swipe & zoom.
I agree with the other poster(s) that Apple is likely working on a folding model, even though it would sabotage sales of some iPad models.
It's funny now that Apple is speculated to have a foldable phone on the drawing board, I can hear in real time all the tech "journalists" swinging their viewpoints around from considering it a joke to saying what a good idea it is and how they can't wait for it. Some of them already talking like Apple invented it, before they even have a product. Seems like Apple still has the reality distortion field.
If we look at Q3 and Q4 sales, I bet it shows Apple increasing its share of phones shipped.
Comparing one company’s share in a quarter where they launch new devices to another company’s share when that company launched no new devices is, frankly, stupid.
I'm curious how quickly that trend will reverse when Google fulfills their promise to lock down sideloading on android.
Samsung makes nice hardware, but their bloatware is infuriating. I spend a lot of time on every new device, using ADB to purge as many samsung apps as I can. I'm getting tired of doing it.
Once I can't sideload anymore on android, my next phone will be an iphone.
The trend, if there is one, will be effected in no measurable way when a few nerds bail because they can't remove Samsung's browser.
By the way, outside of core phone features like Phone (dialer,) Settings, Camera, etc. you can disable or uninstall everything else without sideloading anything.
I have got Samsung S25 Edge which is essentially Samsung's version of iPhone 17 Air few months ago.
Only thing (software wise) which has really been showed down my throat is Bixby and Gemini. No I don't want your stupid AI, get deleted. Other than that, I can't complain about anything.
Apple is probably baffled as to why 10 generations of foldable by the competition my set them back some. I guarantee one day Apple will figure out how to put touch in a laptop and it will be world changing </s> I can’t name a single real iPhone innovation in a decade.
Foldables are a fad. Yeah, you can doomscroll with a bigger screen, but having to baby it? Also foldables, even when folded are bulkier. For whatever usecases for foldables, a tablet is more suitable.
Believe it or not people use phones for different purposes. Some people carry phones in bags or purses where space not a not a big concern. Some people use their phones for work and a bigger screen is helpful in the process and for multitasking. Some people aren't rough with their phones either.
A fad doesn't last this long. We are on year 7 of foldables available in the mainstream and sales and production are only increasing. Every major OEM has at least foldable or is releasing one soon. 3D TV's were fully dead in 7 years for context.
I'll be totally honest, I do not get the appeal of foldable phones, at least with the designs I've seen so far.
I guess you can unfold it to get a bigger 2-part screen? That's about it?
I'd imagine that having it be un-foldable compromises the battery life, overall thickness (when folded) and weight to at least some extent - plus it costs way more. Is the additional screen real-estate really worth that?
If your eyes are young and you only use the phone alone. If you are older you need reading glasses for small screens. If you are showing a video to someone else you need a larger screen to see detail.
of course not knowing you or your uses I can't say if any of this should matter to you. Still it seems like a nice idia not a fad. Only time will tell if people really want it once the fad is over.
> it be un-foldable compromises the battery life, overall thickness (when folded) and weight to at least some extent
Not as much as you would think.
The Galaxy Fold 7 has a 6.5" outer screen (as compared to 6.3" screen in the iPhone 16 pro), is 8.9mm thick when folded (8.25mm in the iPhone 16 pro), has a 4400mAh battery (3,582 mAh in the iPhone 16 pro), and weighs 215g (199 grams for the iPhone 16 pro).
> plus it costs way more
The big downsides are price of $1999 launch price as compared to $999 launch price for the iphone 16 pro and durability. For durability, the foldable screens seem to be very soft making it easy to damage, say with a thumbnail.
My mom and uncles all use extremely large font sizes, they’re barely able to see a whole text at once and they check pictures by traversing them while highly zoomed.
It doesn’t appeal to me either, but I’ve often heard “functionality, taken to an extreme, becomes fashion”. I think that might be what’s happening here. There are _some_ cases in which you might want a foldable phone. But even if you don’t need it, a (good) foldable phone becomes a status symbol.
See also: expensive mechanical watches, sports cars, bottles that hold temperature for 24 hours
I hope the iPhone Air is successful. Folding phones seems so obviously a gimmick. A year from now many of these relatively affordable folding phones will be e-trash, and social media will be full of complaints and retrospective wisdom about how they could never have been reliable. But consumer product offerings are full of gimmicks. Apple is trying not to give into herd mentality.
This but unironically. The funniest product in Apple's lineup right now, bar none, is the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. Apple spent 15 years refining their replacement for the laptop, and it's a touchscreen laptop that runs less software.
You'd think that Apple would stop themselves after reinventing the 2013 Microsoft Surface. Then they reprised Hololens with Vision Pro - how was nobody paying attention to Microsoft's failures at Cupertino?
tbh, Apple lost the plot for the iPad with iPadOS 26.
They brought floating windows, a menu bar, and more mouse and keyboard features but then took away the UX that made it a great touch tablet - no more slide over, and no more quick split view you have to drag the windows your self or tap the green dot and then choose your split ratio - too many extra clicks.
They managed to turn it from a great tablet to a shitty laptop to the point that now I don't even see a reason for owning one if you have a macbook air, unless you REALLY need the pencil.
It's a touchscreen laptop that runs less software and somehow costs more than the actually great laptop they sell at similar size. That magic keyboard pricing is... woof.
Wdym? Why act like the iPhone air is the start of the thin phone trend when the Samsung edge came out before it, and I'm sure plenty of other specifically targeting thinness phones came out even before that. Sounds like Apple is giving into "herd mentality" (which isn't actually a bad thing as long as the herd follows consumer needs).
Oh, but then it wouldn't be a special little club.
I switched to Android last year, from being a long time iPhone user, just for the fold. I got the google pixel fold 9 pro. I also got lucky as it's right when all the cool AI integration started (and it sounds like it doesn't really work on Apple).
My first hand experience is that I will probably never be able to go back to a non-folding phone. The ability to get a small tablet on demand anywhere (subway, train, bed, couch, etc.) is really the next technological breakthrough we were waiting for.
I think the pricing and the battery kinda suck, android also doesn't have the same polish as iOS, but most of the criticism that I've read is not really relevant (for example, I can't see the crease at all if I look at my phone)
I use it a lot to read PDFs and watch videos, or when U want to multi task with two apps open at the same time (e.g. filling forms with a pic of my passport on the other screen). I also read mangas from it. Oh and the ability to use the back camera for selfies while being able to see myself is so great I use that all the time.
>> android also doesn't have the same polish as iOS
As someone who switched from using Android for many years to iOS for the iPhone Mini, this seems to be all about what you're used to. The lack of polish on iOS for many features, notifications and quick settings first among them, makes me crazy but not enough to deal with a huge phone. Android's had the notification shade with integrated settings since just about day one and it's a killer feature.
Riffing on a comment I saw on one of LinusTechTip's "Switch to Android/Apple" videos: phone users misinterpret familiarity with intuitiveness and polish. Android is "intuitive" to me because I've been using it more than a decade. It's "polished" because I'm blind to the rough edges.
I was really surprised when I first got an iPhone. After all the hype about it being so intuitive and polished, it was just different. Some things better, some things worse.
But Apple devices take a bit longer to go obsolete, and seem just a tiny bit less invasive as they don't rely on an advertising model for revenue.
For the few months that I had to use an iPhone in addition to my regular Android phone, I also tried to convince myself that some things were better and some things were worse.
But the iOS keyboard was completely unusable for me as a power user, and it cannot be replaced. I was missing so many features of Gboard. I absolutely could not consider an iPhone or any other replacement phone for that matter, if it does not support Gboard.
iOS must have changed some things related to keyboards. On an iPhone many years ago it was definitely a better experience. I’m not sure if some sort of predictive text gets in the way or what. Or maybe something with the spacing. Or it also seems like some sort of thread priority issue because there are times where I can distinctly tell that there’s some sort of input lag that’s messing with it.
Gboard is crippled on iOS — why can’t we just have a damn comma on the main screen?! And why can't I just get my keyboard to be at the very bottom of my screen.
It's 2025 and we have gone so far backward.
Wow, as others have said below, disabling the “Slide to Type” feature in Settings > General > Keyboard makes typing work well again on iOS. I cannot believe I put up with this awful typing experience for the past year/years. This should be broadcast more widely somehow. I’m sure many people have just assumed they got worse at typing. I am genuinely flabbergasted.
HOLY shit. You just changed my life. You're absolutely right. It fixed the exact problem I could never quite pin down. I guess the keyboard was always a bit too eager to detect a swipe? This is absolutely nuts
edit: i can type without looking again! i hate that this was the issue.
Same here.
The iOS keyboard puts absolute gibberish in there in ways it never did for me before.
The Apple AI predictive text seems strictly worse.
Been using iPhone for years and I swear the keyboards accuracy has turned to absolute shit. I am convinced through my experience that they have definitely changed something and made it terrible. It’s making me consider getting an android cos that’s how we use our phones - with a keyboard.
I've noticed the iOS keyboard has fundamentally different tap recognition based on whether swipe typing is enabled.
It looks the same but behaves differently enough that I have a hard time believing it shares code. When I turn off swipe, my tap accuracy goes MASSIVELY up, and a lot of the autocorrect screwiness seems to abate considerably. I can go back to blind thumb typing.
That said, swipe is so useful, I’ve left it on, and I deal with the degraded tap behavior. But maybe that’s a trade-off for you to consider.
I can't believe this is it. But this is it. Too bad there's no quick toggle to turn it back on? It's possible to create a shortcut for it maybe. I currently have a back tap bring up a menu of different shortcuts I use. Shortcuts is another aspect that's really under utilized because the UX just sucks so much.
I think I looked for a shortcut action to no avail. But if you find one I'd be interested!
I assume it's something to do with distinguishing swipes from taps with both active, but it really is a marked difference.
Oh and it's distinctly worse on the iOS 26 beta. Certain text boxes (like HN) are a nightmare.
I used to smoothly type without looking on iOS. It was like magic. Now, it's just a mess. I think gboard on Android is the current top experience.
FOSS heliboard is a strong competitor to Gboard.
I just tried to use Heliboard. It has many rough edges, I'll file issues to see it they can be improved.
For one thing, the voice typing is useless. It respects neither the language of the full keyboard nor the language shown in its interface. And that separate interface needs to be brought up separately, thus requiring many taps - exactly what I'm avoiding by using voice typing in the first place.
Selecting text then pressing the Delete key does not delete that selection in Hebrew or Arabic. It does work in English.
The swiping in English works fine - probably because that library is lifted directly from Gboard. So the idea is independence from propriety Gboard is not reality anyway. Swiping does not work in Hebrew or Arabic - which together with the lack of voice typing means that I can not use this keyboard at all.
I do like the arrow keys and selection buttons in the toolbar. Gboard has that in a seperate pane, but in the toolbar is much more convenient.
I use the swipe library (Glide typing) but you need to install that seperately.
Apparently the voice input is not coming from Heliboard. You could use an alternative service like futo voice input.
https://voiceinput.futo.org/
I'll check out out, thank you.
Alas, I don't think it's available on iOS.
I use Android as my daily driver.
today I was texting and Google Messages began to lag.
Why DOES everything seem to get worse? I can hear the Doctorow fans coming out of the woodwork to tell me it's "enshittification" but that's a cute conspiracy theory that doesn't explain at all why Google would allow Messages to have a memory leak after working fine for years.
There's no profit motive to making a core application shittier.
We have to dig deeper, because this kind of thing is everywhere and hand waving at capitalism like Doctorow does is a cop out and an unsatisfying explanation IMHO
Why do you need to dig deeper? If you were the PM would you prioritise the fixing of the bug instead of other work that’s more important? How many customers will you actually lose?
Because of agile and ci/cd practices. Meaning you ship features to production with at best a/b testing. Never mind writing tests.
Of course written by some cheap devs from India or Bangladesh.
If the code was even still written by a human at this point.
Because random performance bugs are a giant pain to even detect, let alone root cause.
You’ve been able to replace the iOS keyboard for almost a decade - including with Google’s
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gboard-the-google-keyboard/id1...
> But the iOS keyboard was completely unusable for me as a power user, and it cannot be replaced.
If you're still on Android, try FUTO keyboard. I found the voice-to-text feature to actually be on par with Google's, but without the delay of a phone-home.
You can install gboard on iPhones, I've been using it for several years on one.
It's crippled though. You can't do something simple like have the comma on main view.
Is that an iPhone restriction or is that Google not maintaining a product?
Pretty sure it's limited due to iOS. Because it does allow period to be added.
Just checked with the iOS keyboard development guide and app store review and see no rules against it. Why are you pretty sure it is limited due to the OS?
Because the exact same feature is available on the Android version. No other ios keyboard has it. And the default ios keyboard doesn't have it.
I'm not sure of another reason.
Interesting that it hasn’t been updated in three years.
It's pretty terrible but it's still the best of what I've tried. Given the progress in LLMs the autocomplete/autocorrect choices and word suggestions are laughably bad. Swype and the MS one though still managed to be worse
I went from OnePlus to Nothing recently. Differences in Android skin felt like rough edges at first.
Google is collecting data but I do not see adverts in the OS.
in the very beginning, there was a lot of animation stutters on android. The UI was much less consistent, and the design language of different programs varied pretty wildly. This gave me at the time, a feeling of a distinct lack of polish..
I would say, though that in the year of our Lord 2025, largely hardware is good enough that the animations never stutter on android anymore, an android applications have largely converged on similar UI paradigms.
So I think the issue with criticism is that people hold in the heads for a very long time, I mean a clear example is how people think Linux is extremely user hostile, despite most metrics of what makes something user hostile being significantly superior on most widely available in the next distributions except of course the power user focused ones. Whereas Windows 11 and macOS clearly do not give a shit about breaking muscle memory or having UI inconsistency.
Criticisms live longer in our minds than they do in reality.
It’s gotten worse. 6 and earlier, it was uniquely friendly and approachable.
In my experience, this was true also with Google’s version. The first few iterations were great, then went shit. I need only one thing: add diacritics, and fix basic misspellings. Now all of them try to be “smart” even when they should just add a diacritic to an “a”, they suggest me something completely different even when the word which I need is in their dictionary.
Maybe most people need more, but it annoys me greatly that it tries to be more than simple misspell fixer.
I would agree with you before Apple switched everything to gestures. Any time I now have to help a family member out on an iPhone I get extremely frustrated. Does the interface want me to swipe, long press or do something else? There are no real hints. Extremely irritating.
I miss the three physical navigation buttons that phones used to have. Yes, they took up a bit of space but they were also unambiguous about what their navigational function was.
I know in Android you can switch back to three button navigation if you want.
I despise my work iPhone for the gestures and the screen lock canceling a call if it's not picked up yet, but turning the screen off if the call has been answered. Nothing more annoying than pinging someone by mistake and then calling each other with perfect timing so you both get the message that the other party is already in a call a couple of times.
My wife is a doctor but exact opposite of power user for phones and technology overall. She switched from android to iphone 13 mini when it came out, I recommended it to her and thought Apple is ideal platform for her. Bough her ipods pro too, chargers and so on.
The only, literally only thing she liked was the seamless integration of airpods with phone, hated literally everything else about the hardware and mainly iOS/software. Too dumbed down for her, some trivial things she does often are simply not possible on iOS and that's it, no way on earth to change that without voiding warranty, if at all.
So now she bought Samsung S24 and couldn't be happier. The switch made airpods pro basically useless or more like supremely annoying to use (there's an anti-competitive case or two against Apple in this, degradation is very obvious and on purpose), so she gave them away and happy with whatever plugs she picked up from ocean of available and good enough hardware for her use.
My boss is same story - bought into Apple ecosystem with some older pro max variant maybe 5-6 years ago, then of course airpods and watches followed. The very definition of power user. Switching now back to android (pixel 10 pro), hates the products at this point.
These are people who don't care about price much but want best usability and convenience for them. From opposite side of spectrum of users. Me, I never had A device and probably never will, but I respect them for success and innovation they bring to the whole industry. Good competition literally helps everybody in long run.
I've long said that if Apple didn't have their ecosystem lock-in, they wouldn't be able to compete on a level playing field.
I like a lot of Apple's hardware, and as of now I'm still "all in" on their ecosystems. I have the phone, watch, AirPods, iPad, macbook both for work and personal use, even an Apple TV box.
I can't stand iOS, but the only reason its "better" for me is just because I take advantage of all the other Apple devices and proprietary protocols + I prefer Apple Music over Spotify.
If third parties were allowed to also use AirDrop, shareplay/airplay, clipboard sharing, etc. then I'd dump my iPhone in a heartbeat. But, I love my apple silicon macs too much to get rid of those, and KDE connect isn't great on it, so I'm effectively "stuck"
It's wild how HN will consistently vote down comments that don't have good experiences with apple products, even well thought out ones like this. At the time of this comment you're pretty heavily voted as a negative comment.
Its fine I don't care, I prefer speaking whats on my mind (or experience of others around me) rather than chasing meaningless points by saying likeable stuff. Its not even my first account here.
Why are notifications on iOS such a nightmare? It’s impossible to properly read just a selection or to quickly dismiss many at once.
Because neither the shareholders or the userbase cares about this. Apple has a captive market who accepted this limitation for over 10 years and thee won't switch to Android because of that issue.
Entification will only continue from here on both parties since they've achieved duopoly status, so as a customer you can only pick the lesser of two evils.
Also just how important certain features are to you personally.
For me notifications are generally more annoying than they are useful, and this doesn’t change under Android. In fact the emphasis that Android puts on them in the shade really sucks for me because it’d much rather have the quick settings pane fully visible than room for a couple more notifications — having to swipe again to see all the toggles is super annoying. So for me, the split shade that iOS does where swiping down on the top right edge of the screen shows only your quick toggles is preferable.
Some people basically live in their notifications, though. I’ve never been able to understand it, but they do, and so the Android way works better for them.
I think there are also less subjective aspects though, like the choice of animation curves through much of Android feels “wrong” somehow and different from almost everything else else out there, including Windows, Linux desktops, etc.
> So for me, the split shade that iOS does where swiping down on the top right edge of the screen shows only your quick toggles is preferable.
Just FYI, on Samsung Android Devices this is implemented as you describe.
Useless info: I think the feature was first implemented on Android 3 (Honeycomb) but then abandoned again on Android 4 (ICS)
One UI borrows a number of things from iOS so I’m not surprised. It really should be an option in base AOSP (and thus most Android installs) though.
Just block all your apps from generating notifications. Long press the ones that show up in the pane and turn them off permanently. Eventually you will have them all eliminated.
As someone who has an android personal phone and an iPhone for work for several years, I literally do not know what the hell people mean by "polish", beyond just the informal emotional utterance that can be translated back to "what I'm used to". Half of the stuff in the iPhone is equally arbitrary and mindboggling as the android.
I think a lot of it is just tribal mysticism. One gets used to their preferred devices, and then they mentally imbue them with positive qualities, conjured out of their own imagination/biases. There was an article[1] a while back where the author was complaining that Android apps feel "inert and rigid," and lack "comfort, fun, and panache." Like, really? How is anyone expected to compare one app's "panache" with another one's? You're just used to one ecosystem's apps, and other people are used to another ecosystem's apps.
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34611552
I looked at that link and the quote was:
"But for the most part, it seems like third-party Android apps don’t even try to achieve the look-and-feel comfort, fun, and panache of iOS apps." (referring to Android Mastodon clients vs iOS Mastodon clients)
Is nobody allowed to make any subjective judgement about apps?
“Polish” is subjective. If what a platform provides aligns with your needs, it feels polished. If it doesn’t, that same “polish” can actually work against you. In other words, polish depends on how much you agree with the platform’s way of doing things.
iOS (and Apple overall) tends to be more opinionated. It says, “Do things our way and you’ll have a smooth experience.” Android, by contrast, has historically been more of a flexible “toolkit.” That gave you room to shape the platform to your liking, though it often meant less guidance and structure.
In recent years, Android has shifted toward more out-of-the-box convenience, closing some of that gap. But ultimately, it comes down to what you value: iOS offers a cohesive, guided experience, while Android gives you more leeway to adapt things if you don’t agree with the defaults. Neither approach is inherently better—it’s about what fits you.
I've been using an iPhone I got from a carrier deal for the last year after using Android phones since the T-Mobile G1, and the notification shade drives me insane on iOS. Notifications in general are so much more annoying to deal with on iOS vs Android. For the love of god please just let me clear all notifications!
Also, how Apple seems to deliberately avoid including a shortcut to the full settings anywhere in the control center or the shade. It honestly feels like one of those stubborn Apple things where at one point they decided Android including a settings shortcut (gear icon on the shade) was somehow an admission that its quick actions were poorly designed and iOS is above that.
I think these features are or can be implemented. But they are definitely not obvious. And it’s possible they weren’t there when you first used an iPhone.
To clear all, swipe down on the top left to show Notification Center. You should see an X button right of the words “Notification Center”.
If you want to launch an app from control center, open control center (swipe down from the battery icon), press and hold on a clear area until you’re able to edit it. Add a control. Scroll down until you see the Shortcuts controls and pick Open App, then pick Settings.
1. That only clears notifications not considered “recent”. Any notifications above that cutoff have to be cleared manually (and sometimes there can be a lot).
2. This is actually helpful thanks, don’t think of using a shortcut and making one myself!
> is really the next technological breakthrough we were waiting for
I'm 99% convinced that the iPhone Air is the crippled child of Apple's intention to make a foldable.
They couldn't nail the foldable part (for the time being at least) so they just launched the Air with the things they nailed about the design.
> android also doesn't have the same polish as iOS
Could you provide examples here? Don't get if this is a "feels" thing.
The things that imho iOS really nails better are: - integration with devices (in the same Apple ecosystem) - battery life when browsing
What else?
I just switched from a Motorola Razr+ to a OnePlus 13 because the Razr's internal display cable apparently started flaking out, probably because I dropped it on the hinge on concrete a while back. I almost got another Razr, but even though I got a "normal" phone this time around, I'm tentatively planning to move back to a foldable once my OnePlus is old and gray.
Foldables are just so nice; the flip style for me is especially convenient since it is more compact in a pocket. I also feel like we're almost to the tipping point where we can consider folding displays solved to the point that new generations start having marginal iterations (as opposed to "wow, the crease is so much smaller!" and "Oh look, they finally got foldables IP68 rated!").
How has the reliability been?
Here's part of the list of warnings I saw when I setup a Samsung Fold for someone else:
> Don't press the screen or under display camera with a sharp object such as a pen or fingernail. Doing so can result in scratches, dents, or damage to the screen.
> This phone isn't dust-proof. Exposure to small particles such as sand may cause damage.
I live close to the beach, so very often have a bit of sand in my pocket. Seems like these phones wouldn't last a weekend.
I actually went back to the s25 from the fold because of this.
When you get sand in the hinges, it's pretty annoying and difficult to clean out. I was always nervous about taking my phone out on the beach.
That's tough living in Florida, the whole state is basically a giant sand bar.
I also actually didn't like the fold part. Most of what I do on a phone is read Kindle or browse the web.
For Kindle, the phone was uncomfortable to hold with one hand for long periods to read.
Web browsing was worse than a normal phone because many common sites like weather.com have responsive design that get very confused and unusable with that "in-between" size. The display on the outside of the phone that you can use while it's closed was so tiny and narrow it was unusable as well.
The whole thing was heavy and clunky feeling. (This was the most recent galaxy fold, the pixel one may be better)
I was pretty happy to go back to a normal form factor.
The new Pixel 10 fold has a sealed hinge, and is water proof.
I've thought larger bi-folds have an odd aspect ratio for anything but two-app multi-tasking. E.g. there's ~ no benefit for videos compared to non-foldables with half the screen area. Is aspect ratio not an issue in practice somehow?
It's a great aspect ratio for reading or writing.
And it does increase the size of videos somewhat, compared to using the outer screen in landscape orientation.
Yeah videos aren't as big as they could be due to the aspect ratio, they still look bigger though and its enough of a life improvement that I always flip mine open when I want to watch a video!
> the battery kinda suck
Probably because of all the AI integration stuff. You don't get something for nothing. Turn on battery saver, data saver, and decrease brightness (and refresh rate if possible). Still, You have three screens worth of volume taking away space for a larger battery. That's the deal with folders.
I discovered something insideous after being in the iOS ecosystem. Apple still slows down iPhones, but not in the way you think - every year around their iPhone launch schedule, like clockwork, my iPhone 14 Pro Max slowed down just enough to make me think it was ageing, but not enough to suspect - after a lot of tests, it turns out, the reponsitivity of the touch was being reduced in software. So, the "smooth" iOS polished animations feel a bit laggy, but not enough to raise eyebrows. But, this is not even the worst part. I casually - out of pure coincidence discovered that Apple actually reduces the camera's clarity around their new iPhone launches. Particularly low-light performance. I thought I was being paranoid, but I'm a photographer and the hotel I walked across everyday in the evening had these beautiful hanging creepers which combined with golden lighting, always provided a pleasant sight. So, I loved taking pictures of it randomly until one day I noticed that regardless of the camera mode, the noise was insanely high and the pictures suddenly looked like they were taken from an old Android phone from 2015. I cleaned the lenses, had no cover, etc. I copied the images to my computer and the difference was clearly visible.
After a little bit digging, it turns out, I wasn't the only one. A lot of people had complained about the lagginess around iPhone launch dates. This is an old graph from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd....
This is actual data from Google trends: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=iphone%2...
You can clearly see a spike in as recent as September 2025. But, the camera data was the last straw for me. As a photographer who paid $1000+ for the iPhone Pro Max - supposedly their latest and greatest phone of the time, only to get screwed over by greed 2 years later, I had enough.
I sold the iPhone at a loss, got myself a Samsung Note and I actually took pictures of the same hotel again and the difference was stark. That really told me everything I needed to know about Apple's ethics. In contrast, I also have a Samsung S10+ from ages ago and it still functions flawlessly. The trade off clearly is privacy with the Android eco-system, but until we have a decent Apple alternative that's also privacy focused, I'm forced to accept this trade off.
Funnily enough, my iPad and Macbooks never get slowed down, even if it's 5+ years. It's only for the iPhones. I guess they view the iPhone as fast fashion or something, but the ethical component is not acceptable to me.
I wonder if there's a correlation here with new versions of iOS being released around the same time as new phones? Is it possible that OS optimization takes a back seat to bug fixes during the run up to release then subsequent point releases improve performance?
That's been my experience, using iPhones primarily since the 6s.
The .0 releases of iOS have been getting worse lately and are not great, but usually by .2 or .3 it's fine if not better on the older devices.
I think the annual release schedule is too much for Apple to the point that now the .0 release is effectively a public beta. Especially if there are any big changes. iOS 26 RC is laggy on my 16 Pro Max, which without a doubt can absolutely handle it, it's just a buggy mess still. I'm sure that by .2 it'll be fine.
[flagged]
What are you doing on the large screen?
Same. I haven't used my tablet since I got mine.
Doesn't have the same polish? Are you kidding me.
How do you go back on iOS? Oh yeah it depends on which app and sometimes even where you are within one app. On android? Use the navigation bar or the same back gesture, every time all the time.
I never ever had a problem of not being sure how to go back in an iOS app, so I don't see why a dedicated button is such a missing feature.
Polish is also about visual consistency and Android is behind on that front.
I switched to an iPhone five years ago and still miss the consistency of the Android back button. If a webpage embeds a full-width map, for example, the Safari back swipe is blocked by a pan action, and you need to jiggle the page's scroll to get the back button to show up at the bottom.
iOS is filled with UI junk at this point. Not having a consistent way to go back is the least of my problems when attempting to use my wife's iPhone.
It is the most obvious though, having to tap right at the top left (usually) of the screen for the most frequently used action is incomprehensible.
I dabbled a bit with iOS. I'm a long time Android fan, and I was curious, so I gave it a shot. And you're absolutely right. Even if you've come to expect backwards navigation to be in the top left, how the hell is that convenient? Assuming a right-handed individual, that means you have to stretch all the way up there or bring your left hand into play. And if you're left-handed, you still need to reach all the way up at the top of the screen. It's baffling. But we'll have people here defending it, for some unknown reason. Probably because they're used to it. Just like I'm not used to it as an Android guy so I find it repulsive. But I can also back it up with just the constraints of the human hand.
For what it's worth, I don't have the navigation bar at the bottom. I just use gestures, so anywhere I swipe off screen to on screen, it's considered a back gesture. Which, once you get used to it, you cannot go back. Well, you can. By swiping. ;}
? I use it a lot to read PDFs and watch videos...
only if I cannot reasonably access a computer will i use a thumb-typing touchscreen device to do serious work. as computing devices, they are sub-par when compared to desktops. as telephones, they are subpar compared to dumbphones
I dont mind iphones but with how they lock down their devices and do things like prevent you from removing keyword suggestions so when your keyboard starts harassing you, you are out of luck.and the edges are so sharp and uncomfortable to hold.
Its like wearing a thong or being locked in chastity.As a male I dont understand why people people wear those things.
So the facts we know are that 1) Samsung market share rising from 23% to 31% and 2) they recently released new foldable phones. But do we know that's the actual primary reason for the increase? I couldn't tell that from the article. The article mentions engagement of specific social media posts, but that's as much as it, without any sales number/estimates from anyone.
I heard a stat the other day in the Dithering podcast, I’m not sure from where, that said that foldable phones are something like 1.7% of the market in the US.
If that’s close it’s not why Samsung‘s market share increased so much. That was for ALL foldable phones of all brands. That wouldn’t make statistical sense.
There are people who like foldable phones. Apple does not have them. And Samsung‘s market share went up.
Thats all we know. The rest is a catchy headline.
Yeah I doubt the foldables are driving it.
I also bet the numbers will change now that the 17 is out. These things are cyclical, and whomever releases first in a year typically gets a small boost. Samsung releases phones twice a year, Jan/Feb and July typically, while Apple is once a year in the fall.
These numbers are also only for one quarter.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Android's market share increase in the US, and I say that as an iPhone user. Apple's marketshare, especially amongst young people in the US is not beneficial at all, it's effectively a monopoly, and with iMessage popularity here it causes a communications lock-in effect. But, I'm doubtful without seeing a full years worth of numbers or a more consistent increase.
Or maybe people are finally tired of Apple stagnating and are finally open to trying the other side.
A separate point they made on the same episode is that when Apple releases a foldable phone (rumored for next year) it might significantly increase the number of foldable sold for all brands.
It would give the idea of foldable phones a big visibility boost so more people would know they exist, thus perhaps more would buy them.
Think about how popular MP3 players were before the iPod, and how popular they were after even for non-Apple ones. It raised a lot of awareness.
It’s an interesting idea. Personally I have a hard time seeing a foldable phone being something I would be interested in. But I’m curious to see Apple’s take.
It'd definitely be interesting to see the affect on the foldable market if Apple releases one.
I'm still skeptical on that happening though. I don't think the screen tech is ready for an Apple quality device yet, and Apple is historically very into device separation - they try not to blur the lines between their products. iPad will never be a mac, macs will never have touch screens, I have a hard time seeing them making a phone that effectively becomes an iPad mini.
I doubt they are making all of the impact, but are we comparing market share of newly sold phones to market share of all in-use phones, or the podcast was talking about newly sold?
I’m not sure it qualified. I’d assume in-use. But I doubt phones that get close to $2000 are popular enough to be a large percentage of new phones either.
Better than 1.7%? Sure. Better than 5% I doubt it.
Foldable phones are selling like hot cakes outside the U.S. but I don't know about the U.S. market. Could be catching up.
> 3. If you're into smaller phones, they're a good option
Curious to hear more about this. I don't mind thickness so much. How small are they? If I can get a decent phone with a <= 5" screen, I'd be ecstatic.
What I meant was using the outer screen while folded (e.g. Z Flip models)
Oh that does look interesting! https://phonesized.com/compare/#2715,1863
May have to get my hands on one some time and see how it feels.
Anecdotal, but I'm seeing a lot of folding phones in public.
I look at the prices and wonder how some of the people I see with them can afford them. But using them is probably many people's favorite hobby at this point?
Probably carrier financing. Most carriers will offer 3 year monthly payments for phones, along with other promos that come along with bill credits w/ trade-in, etc.
I doubt many are dropping $2,000 cash on the new phones but are more likely getting it financed as part of their phone plan.
Most of it is your tax dollars. I have two friends who aren't officially with the mother of their kids in any way on paper so that they get as many benefits for single mothers as possible.
I see this in media all the time. Make factual statements and imply they are connected, but with zero data if they actually are. Or claim "People are doing X" without any data if a statistically relevant number are actually doing X or just the 2 people they found as an example
Just anecdotally I spent some time with older members of my family a couple months back in a hospice situation, and folding phones were very popular with everyone at the facility. If your vision isn't the best and maybe your hands aren't so steady, having double the real estate makes a big difference.
That's interesting I would think someone in a hospice (old?) would mean barely able to use technology, something basic with big buttons like a jitter bug.
Funny I saw someone who's phone was so zoomed in the letters were massive in the messaging app, I thought they mistakenly did that but it was on purpose.
It was an assisted living facility with on site medical clinic and hospice care. So it was a wide variety of people.
And yeah, being able to make the letters huge is a big deal. Also being able to dictate texts or emails was also huge for a lot of the people there. Much more convenient for them.
We don't, but can extrapolate:
[1] Reviewer comparison: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45209164
[2] Specs: iPhone Air: 5.64mm, 165g vs. Samsung Edge: 5.8mm, 163g, 200MP camera, stereo, larger battery
https://www.facebook.com/theapplehubofficial/posts/galaxy-s2...
[3] Demand by young man: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44678489
You can see in the report that this article is based on that is a cyclical swing that happens every year based on their respective release cycles. Silly article.
https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/us-smartphone-market-q2-202...
I just bought a 2nd hand Fold 6 for 800$ and I'm not going back to slab phones ever. Primarily because I've never done as much reading as I've done in the past month with this phone. Removal of friction here has been such a game changer when it comes to productive use of my phone - now when I would doom scroll otherwise I just unfold my phone and do a bit of reading.
The only drawback is the camera but turns out it's much easier to carry a dedicated camera (Canon g7xm3 in my case) than a dedicated reading device / tablet.
I felt this way at one point and vocally proclaimed as such on here. My Fold 5 developed a bubble under the screen protector after about 18 months. I sent it into Samsung through the website to get it repaired. Whoever "repaired" it, just seemed to slice the screen protector down the middle with an knife so it had a big ugly line down the center. Predictably, it was full of bubbles again within a week. I'm not even bothering opening it anymore for fear that it will break the inner screen. Between this and the fact that I had another two Samsung phones that developed hardware faults making them unusable after 2 years of use, I'm absolutely done with Samsung. Before that, I had an iPhone that was still going strong after 7 years. I'm preordering an iPhone tomorrow and selling the Samsung. Doubt I will be venturing into the Android ecosystem again. Might get an Apple foldable depending on what the initial reports are like on durability after it's been around for a couple of years. The time sink of having to transfer a phone across is high and I really cba with doing it because of avoidable screen repair.
>I had another two Samsung phones that developed hardware faults making them unusable after 2 years of use, I'm absolutely done with Samsung
I haven't tried any foldable phones and I have no intention to anytime soon, but with other samsung phones my experience has been completely different. I've only ever used Samsung smartphones, and the only times they broke was when I dropped them or mishandled them myself somehow. My current one is past the 6 year mark, and I have no issues with it. It still keeps 48 hours of battery with my normal use (though that might not be saying much considering my normal use is different from most people's normal use of watching videos for hours)
My experience with 5 Samsung phones over 10ish years, last one being 2019:
Great hardware that nearly always impresses. Very infrequent hardware issues compared to its main competitors (in the android space).
Extremely annoying software experience. Locked bootloader aside, as I recognize that's only an issue for a very small group. But the software goes through these intense hills and valleys where you can go a long time without updates, with bugs, with bloat, with problems. Then a burst of updates that seem to address many of those issues, then it just slides back into the shit. And the amazing hardware is dragged down in this cycling, to the point where the phone will feel old at an accelerated rate. I've hard that exact complaint about apple and a few other android manufacturers many times but only Samsung has genuinely given me that experience.
It's very unfortunate. If they unlocked the bootloader I could bypass the software issues myself and have damn near the perfect phone.
Oh how I wish I could root Samsung phones. The best hardware all around. Cramped down by the dumb bootloader lock and Knox tripping!
I had a fold 3, and now a fold 6. The screen protectors are easily replaceable yourself. It's the only weakness on the phone I've found, and a cheap ($17ish) wear item. The replacement ones I get feel much nicer and thicker than the original.
Samsung literally tells you not to replace the inner screen protector yourself.
And the FDA tells you not to cook your steak rare.
That's not completely true. The FDA rules are an oversimplification because the actual rules are complicated.
Chris Young has a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbaZpJ1AhFU
Rare stake is fine; it's rare burgers that are a risk, because bacteria can get ground into them.
I love the replacement matte inner screen protector on my fold 4. It's so much better than the glossy screen protector and it was cheap, and easy to install.
There's a video out there of a bunch of guys flipping Samsung phones all day long. It starts failing after about 6k flips.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPPLhYDnkFA&t=1s&pp=2AEBkAIB
FTV, main issues from the fold test:
The reboots at 10K intervals seems like a software problem fixable by an update.The speakers failing at 175K folds seems like the major failing point. I suppose bluetooth would probably still be working so you could still limp through day-to-day activities.
To be fair, 175K folds is like folding it once every 5 minutes for every waking hour of the day for two and a half years.
They also did it constantly, which would build up heat. Doing it like a normal person would probably give you a few multiples more folds.
yeah I had my samsung phone brick after three years. Not sure I trust samsung hardware either.
If you prefer to carry a dedicated camera in addition to a phone, aren't you a far outlier? To the point that one of the most common sayings in photography is "the best camera is the one you carry" (even when it's the sub-par one).
I think that's really that most people don't know or don't care enough about photography. Which is fine. That's up to them. But some of us do care.
"The best camera is the one you carry" is about opportunistic capture of moments i.e. it's better to record them on anything than nothing. That doesn't always work. I've lost more moments than I gained on a smartphone camera which won't focus on what I want, does weird uncorrectable things with white balance, has a pretty nasty digital zoom, or has gunk on the lens from being handled.
Exactly! To add, if I take a dedicated camera with me it feels like a side quest permission to go out there and look for actual photography targets actively rather than just wait for an opportunity. It's kinda like taking a shovel to the beach - you'll end up digging some holes just because you took it.
That's fair. (Heading off topic:) My take on that saying is that I make art when the inspiration strikes. So I am often caught carrying a minimal amount of stuff but noticing something and wanting to play with it. My very mediocre 1st gen iPhone SE is indeed absurdly far in capabilities from my serious camera - but historically there have been far worse cameras. (And it has never been quite the same since I replaced the battery and I annoy my friends by tapping the phone so it will auto-focus.)
The phone camera is still very much functional but it's not newest gen Pixel. It probably matches most 2-4 year old slab phones. The slab cameras are actually very much in right now and my g7x I had for 5 years now has risen in value which basically never happened with cameras before.
Given the price and fragility of foldables, I’m happier to stick to a cheap phone with a small screen to minimise the urge to use it (second-hand iPhone 13 Mini), and carry around a Kobo for reading needs.
> I’m happier to stick to a cheap phone with a small screen to minimise the urge to use it (second-hand iPhone 13 Mini)
Me too, but this option is disappearing. As our minis reach end of life, I don't think we'll have other "small" options than foldables, unless you're willing to go for super niche android phones (eg unihertz)
Hopefully the foldables become more resilient by then
I fully expect to get 3-4 more years life out of my 13 Mini; hopefully by that point Apple will do another small(ish) phone release for people who are holding out.
Haven’t even had to replace the battery in our 13 Minis yet, so hoping as well for another 4 years. After that, I hope Apple has glued two small iPhone Airs together and made a foldable.
The fragility is mostly a myth. New foldables are very durable.
Yup, a friend of mine has been into folding phones for some years now, and he warned me that these foldables seem to last about two years before something happens. (He didn't quite specify what would happen, though.)
I got a friend on a fold going on four years now, it's fine. Milage varies I suppose.
I have a friend that doesn't have a foldable phone. I'm skeptical such phones even exist.
Good to know, thanks!
I should have noted, it doesnt look as good as a slab phone does after that period. The crease is now (at least to me) very noticable, but it does still work. I've been watching his to see if I should make the transition away from Apple back to Android haha.
I have one of the newer lowend Razrs. It wasn't that expensive, less than a base model iPhone and it actually helps me use my phone less because it takes intention to actually open it.
I'd still prefere regular phone (wouldn't mind something smaller, like 5,5" with bigger battery) and dedicated e-ink ebook reader... it's just more convenient and with it I'm guaratneed to be distraction free...
I also bought a 2nd hand Fold 4 for $700... it lasted a year before the wifi/bluetooth broke, it stopped folding all the way, and eventually stopped booting up.
Seem to always have reliability issues with Samsung phones. Hopefully the 6th iteration is more stable.
The google fold seems better quality
I had two friends that said the same thing and now both have iPhones. They got sick of constantly sending in their phones to be replaced for screen failures. One had a pixel other had a Samsung.
The one with a pixel final break was when he landed in Belize to start a vacation and the screen died. Entire vacation he had to borrow wife’s iPad mini to read.
Which app do you use to read?
Play Books is actually really underrated! It's quite minimal, cross platform with cloud state and does everything really well. One cool unique feature I found is that it can sync notes and highlights straight to a google drive folder.
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You're quoting something I didn't say and reading books is pointless?
Did the parent edit their comment, or did you choose an ungenerous interpretation of what they wrote?
This is just 4chan-style argumentation where you belittle someone by purposefully misinterpreting and misquoting them.
The latter, I've never said what the parent comment is quoting.
Yeah I also watched more youtube on the fold... I don't miss it. Except for when doing the Sunday New York Times crossword!
I thought the idea of a folding phone was just a cash grab until I saw someone on the plane across the aisle from me interacting with one. It has been a while since I saw someone get so much enjoyment out of a device. The back and forth between folded and unfolded to read messages and watch movies/read a book was mesmerizing. It made me realize that this form factor could actually enhance the user experience in a meaningful way.
I genuinely think book reading is the killer app for foldable devices. A bigger screen for a movie or TV is nice to have, but not a game changer. When you have that much screen real estate you can get a really enjoyable experience reading a novel or just easily read a textbook or research paper in a way that's simply not possible on even the largest of what you might consider a typical size phone.
Plus, you no longer need to deal with buying and maintaining a separate device like an iPad! This is why I suspect Apple is dragging its feet on the foldable category, besides letting the screen technology mature. It will probably cannibalize some sales from that market segment.
What about book reading requires a large screen?
I find my phone much more comfortable to hold than a book. It fits my hand.
You only read one sentence at a time anyway. I rather scroll, keeping the current sentence in the middle of the screen than jump around with my eyes in an open book, and having to turn pages, or keeping them flat.
Am I missing something? (Real question. I read a lot!)
Reading PDFs is the biggest case. PDFs do not (typically) dynamically reflow in a way that's usable and generally suck to read on a small screen as a result. Source: read a lot of PDFs on mobile.
But most books are probably not PDFs?
Most? Idk maybe. Most papers are. Most TTRPG books I've encountered are. Textbooks are often PDFs, not EPUBs.
Nah, I'd say most digital books are probably PDFs.
> You only read one sentence at a time anyway.
Not how I read when I read on paper & this bothers me on a phone a lot.
I'm not functionally dyslexic, but all the words pop out at the same time, you could say I read verbs, then tense, nouns after and then I read adjectives in a sentence.
But English is also my second language, so my first language's grammar probably fits closer.
Oddly enough when I first encountered lisp, the nested pile of map, fold and filter was easier because of the well trained habit of restructuring after reading verbs.
I think there are two reasons.
1) Some books have images, charts, tables, etc. The screen size makes a big difference for these.
2) The format of the "book". Reading a PDF for example is much better on a bigger screen.
Your eyes can skip around and read a lot faster. Most things I read have me skipping around quite a bit. The only time I'm straight-linear with reading is in fiction, and for that I've moved to audiobooks.
Fair question and I read a lot on my phone too! I think the use cases that come to mind for me are comics/graphic novels and research papers. Both of these are kind of annoying to read on phones right now.
I agree. PDFs/papers are no fun on a phone. I heard “book” and thought of fiction / nonfiction.
I get a lot less eye fatigue when I use a bigger screen at a larger distance.
Too bad that when it comes to reading for pleasure, "all signs show a slump"...
https://www.arts.gov/stories/blog/2024/federal-data-reading-...
Though I agree with you that a larger reading screen would be very nice, I doubt such an experience on a device that offers endless digital distractions will reverse this downward trend - not that you said it would.
Kindles and their competitors have pretty much perfected the devices for this market. They are cheap, high quality, and last long. The few people who like to read do not mind carrying a dedicated reader. However a foldable eink reader would be interesting.
It could go both ways though. Phones get more heavy use, and foldables will probably always be more fragile than iPads, so they might wind up with more customers replacing a more expensive device more often. iPads last a really long time, which was talked about as a problem for Apple's revenue. Some day we might even get a foldable iPad.
Also I doubt that Apple's foldable phone will cost the same or less than Samsung's, as is suggested in the article...
> Plus, you no longer need to deal with buying and maintaining a separate device like an iPad!
I've found a much easier solution to this problem.
I actually use a single screen to read epubs using my folding phone, mostly use two screens for PDFs, mangas, and videos.
Exactly. Apple is adding so much to iPadOS 26 (e.g. new windowing features) that it resembles the Mac. The next foldable iPhone will be like the iPadOS prior to version 26, so that Apple can make sure iPadOS remains more powerful than iOS.
I agree with your first paragraph.
For your second, I think you don’t understand why people buy/use iPads. First off, I don’t really know anyone who uses an iPad mini for anything productive (other than as a test device). A 7-9” screen is just not useful compared to a 13” iPad for things like Sidecar or reading sheet music in live performances. The 7-9” screen being an unfolded phone doesn’t change this.
A folding iPhone could eat the iPad mini, but that’s never been a cash cow for Apple or something power users cared about - it’s more of an “iPod touch” for kids. (And frankly, the Switch 2 kind of obsoletes it.) The thing that would eat 13” iPads’ lunch is something more like Apple Vision.
Weirdly enough, the iPad Mini is probably the iPad most used for work. The size & weight are perfect for many scenarios. Pilots, warehouses, and field work of all sorts.
For me personally, it's my travel machine. I've done all sorts of things with it on the road. From SSH to using Photoshop to make some last minute edits. It (barely) fits in my pockets so I don't even need a bag for it. Probably my favorite machine ever at least in terms of form factor.
Screen size does seem to be a personal choice. For me, I've always liked small screens for portability. I'm the weirdo who actually got work done on the first gen Asus EEE PC and didn't mind it. But I can understand that wouldn't be for everyone.
The iPad Mini form factor with cell connectivity is pretty great when you're travelling light.
My normal international travel load-out is a backup smart phone + an 8" LTE tablet with eSIM + bluetooth keyboard. It's about as minimal as I can get while still having a real keyboard and functional screen size to handle travel logistics.
My folding phone has completely replaced my ipad pro (which was my favorite device until now)
> I don’t really know anyone who uses an iPad mini for anything productive
I guess you don't know many pilots? :)
What do pilots use them for?
Pilots use iPads for all of the charts and checklists. Even having two iPads (one as a backup) is much lighter and thinner (and easier to update) than the paper copies it replaces.
Electronic flight bag, contains all the information a pilot needs.
This is the app they use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ForeFlight
747_getting_started.pdf
so_you_want_to_be_a_pilot.epub
Phones replaced computers for most people, so I think folding phones can replace tablets.
The big future that I see for foldables is as tablets for note takers.
Microsoft and Apple have already proven that students are willing to shell out the money to buy $1000+ products just to take hand written digital notes on. If Samsung or someone else could create a foldable that's in the ~$1500 range that can fold out into the size of an ipad mini AND has a good pen usage and storage situation, I believe it will sell incredibly well.
It'd be so cool to be able to walk to a lecture with only your phone.
I used to take notes on my Newton MessagePad back at a time when college professors would _not_ allow folks to use laptops for notetaking --- agree, in addition to folding, you pretty much need a stylus for note-taking (and for an Apple Pencil, I'd worry about the "tick" one gets each time it's touched to the screen).
That said, these days I use a Samsung Galaxy Note 10+, Amazon Kindle Scribe w/ Premium Pen, Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360, and when at a desk, a MacBook and Wacom One display, all with Wacom EMR --- no folding devices, since there doesn't yet seem to be one which uses the normal frequencies (most recent foldables used the same frequency for the stylus as is usually used for the eraser?!?).
I'd give a lot for a competitor to the Lenovo Yoga Book 9i which used a Wacom EMR stylus, or for a phone which used a standard Wacom EMR stylus.
I’d be tempted by a foldable iPhone if (and only if) they have a stylus, but I don’t expect them to.
The form factor doesn’t lend itself to storing a comfortably sized “pencil” along with the phone, and god forbid an Apple accessory exist that doesn’t feel perfectly integrated with the product it goes with.
That's curious. Folding phones are in the same bucket as 3D television in my mind.. but I'm probably not the target market.
Same thoughts.
I did try one, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold for 6 months before going back to iOS (I'm too deep on the ecosystem, but I like to try Android again every once in a while).
I think I only used it unfolded like three times. It was pretty much pointless for me.
Anything I need a bigger screen for, I almost always have either my laptop or iPad with me for that. I don't WANT to do things on my phone, I actually want to use it less - a foldable offers the alternative deal, where you want to and actively use your phone for more and more tasks forgoing other devices.
Not for me, probably never will be.
You probably are in the target market but it's hard to understand how life changing it is without having one for at least a day.
It's only life changing if you use your phone for most of your computing. I don't, I tried a foldable and barely used it unfolded, just didn't "get it." If I need to do something that's frustrating on a phone screen, I don't use my phone - I almost always have my laptop with me, or my iPad near by. If I don't, it can probably wait until I get home anyway.
Consequently, probably why I might be "downgrading" from a pro max down to the new iPhone Air. No bulk, no excessive camera array...just a thin, light phone.
That's exactly my phone use. I still want a fast phone because a laggy interface will make my phone use even more annoying for the use I do have, but trying a foldable for a week or so it just felt like something clunkier to carry around in between using my tablet or desktop.
Then you got the wrong foldable phone - you should have gone for the flip - that's way smaller and more pocketable than air. Will probably get you similar battery stats.
Sounds horrible to me. Why would I want to do the extra step of flipping things open and typing in two form factors. But then I’m not really watching long form videos on my phone so maybe I’m just not the target market.
Imagine that you need to grab your laptop or your tablet because you need a larger screen, now you can just do that from a small movement
Except e.g. the 7.6" Pixel Fold screen is still only a third of the area of a 13" MacBook (not to mention a desktop).
To people (like me) who want bigger screens, your comment reads akin to "Imagine that you need to grab your phone because you need a 6" screen, now instead you can just flip out a second screen from your Apple Watch and have a 2.5" screen."
A macbook pro is so small compared to my big tv in the living room
Hey, I can relate, I’ve got a projector in my basement. Watching anything cinematic on a 50” display feels pretty anemic in comparison unless I sit awkwardly close to the TV.
Multi app works pretty well too, when I need to cross reference between apps throwing them each up on the split halves is way better than swapping back and forth.
It's a mini laptop with a digital keyboard. Whats not to love? :)
I had never seen one in the wild until I made a new friend recently, who has one of the foldable Samsung devices. My initial impression was that it is clunky, way too thick/large for comfortable pocket storage+running and it looks cheap for how much it cost... and last week my friend said he got his first ever dead pixel of any of his devices on the foldable phone. Take that opinion and info as you will.
The Fold 7, new this year, is hardly clunky. It's less than 1mm thicker than an iPhone Pro when folded and is only 4.2mm when open where it has an 8" screen. It's surprisingly un-clunky.
I know less than ten people with foldable phones, but without fail they all claim that the screen is durable, but I have yet to see any foldable phone without a cracked screen after a few years.
A lot of people crack their normal smartphone screens too. Every mall's got a guy making a living off of fixing them.
I've had 2 Samsung fold phones, no dead pixels. They have been perfect, and very much not "clunky". "looks cheap"? How? It's probably the most well built phone I've ever had, and I've had all the brands, even an iPhone that didn't work well (remember "you're holding it wrong"?).
Screen is really good on the google folding 9. On the other hand my gf broke her iphone screen twice in one week (the second time a few days after getting an official repair...)
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If Samsung had a better reputation for privacy they’re the brand I’d switch to for one of their folders.
I’m put off by how Samsung monetise every data source they’re trusted with though. E.g. TV viewing, phone data, Samsung Pay, forced analytics, etc.
As a brand they don't seem to have any restraint when it comes to user privacy.
I switched to a Motorola after my Samsung repeatedly nagged me about offers in my area with the ever popular "not now" instead of "f*ck off" button.
I'd like a foldable but not so much to pay $1300 for the Razr.
What Samsung did you have? Afaik their flagships don't have any nagging. And which Motorola did you get? Don't they have the same promotional nagging?
Most my phones are the low end free-to-get-you-to-sign-up models.
AT&T doesn't have low end Motorolas so I bought an unlocked, guaranteed to work with AT&T, sub $300 one directly off motorola.com and took it to the AT&T store.
So far it's left me alone.
Low-end Android all have the same nagging adware or if they're not nagging they're definitely selling your data way more than flagships where customer UX is a priority.
>they're definitely selling your data way more than flagships where customer UX is a priority.
I'd to see some evidence for this claim. It seems to be a ridiculous offhand claim to make in this era of late stage capitalism. Flagship phones owners are wealthier, their data is more valuable for customer acquisition. Why in god's name would those penny pinchers leave that kind of money on the table? It makes no sense. It's not like flagship phone owners can track whether their data is being sold any better than low end phone owners.
They might make it harder to turn data collection off in low end phones, but that says nothing of their desire to be able to sell the data of flagship phone owners.
There is a positive side to that though. For example, their alternative to Apple's Find My seems to work quite well.
Every company doesn't do well with privacy. So the next step matters -- security.
Out of all the companies, Google and Samsung are by far the most secure companies in terms of breaches and the magnitude of those breaches.
Of course, not going to that next step would be ideal, but at least you have some control over your choice on security.
Except not now with Google's changes to Android security patches moving to quarterly instead of monthly so they can cover for shitty OEMs that don't push updates.
You don't think those vulnerabilities are going to leak out during the 4 months that OEMs have them before patches are pushed out?
Google has chosen to sacrifice security for marketing.
I care little about privacy, but OneUI just looks ugly to me.
It starts with Samsung's app icons. They all feel like a cheap knockoff of either Apple or Google to me.
I don't want to get a device where the UI looks like this.
Other than that, the Z-Fold 7 looks like a great device. I hope Google catches up.
Been using a flip for four years (Samsung) and will buy another when the time comes (not necessarily Samsung).
Ever wanted a smaller phone? That's a flip phone, it just happens to expand when you need it. Ever drop your phone and damage the screen ? The closed flip phone is super sturdy. Ever wanted to put your phone on the table and use it with one hand, laptop style? Flip. Even in general use, having it slightly bent towards you is a nicer experience that a fully flat phone.
Yes, it has a slight crease in the middle, it has never bothered me even a little. And now, there's an actual microcrack across the crease, doesn't really bother me either, but for some people it might. Look forward to improvements in the next generations.
I had the Flip 2, 3, and 5. I just switched to the Moto Razr Ultra and I feel like it is even better. The external screen works almost like the internal screen, making it extremely easy to use. Samsung locks down their external screen pretty hard and you need a lot of work arounds that still don't give me the same functionality as the Razr.
I also got the Clicks physical keyboard case for it, which turns it into a modern Blackberry type phone. I love it. The physical keyboard means no on-screen keyboard taking up your external screen space. I only actually open my phone a few times a day, which really helps keep doomscrolling at bay. Full discloser, the keyboard isn't perfect and definitely has some quirks and tradeoffs but on the whole I'm glad I got it.
When it goes on sale, I'm going to give it a go with the Moto Razr 2025 with the Clicks keyboard case. Closed, it looks almost exactly like an old Blackberry, but it can flip open to a normal-ish (coming from an iPhone Mini very tall) screen when needed.
I bought a zfold 7 about a month ago, it has been without a doubt the coolest new device I have purchased in many years. It's unbelievably thin, if you use it in normal phone mode you can't even tell that it's a fold. I have installed so many fun apps. I downloaded Mihon which is a manga/comic reader and I've read the first 10 volumes of Berserk, it's such a great experience reading manga on the fold screen. I also got NetherSX2 which is a PS2 emulator, it's insane to me that a phone can emulate PS2 games perfectly, I played thru a good bit of Kingdom Hearts one night with a Switch controller connected via bluetooth. I also downloaded ReadEra and have read some of the Malazan fantasy series on the device. I can play Oldschool Runescape while watching YouTube videos at the same time. I have RVNC viewer and have used it to connect to a Linux system downstairs to manage one of my systems. The split keyboard on fold mode is super easy and fast to type on, I'm using it right now to send this message. The web browsing experience is great because unlike iPhone, I can have uBlock origin and desktop mode websites look great on the fold screen.
Having both a phone and tablet in your pocket is phenomenal. I don't think I can go back at this point. Apple knows this, which is imo why the rumor is the new iPhone 17 will have a fold option for a higher price. If you think it's gimmicky, you haven't tried it yet.
Personally I think they're ugly. They might have some functional advantage, that I don't know. I believe they're going to be the cyber truck of mobile phones, primarily a status symbol.
Yes but it's not ugly in the look/fashion sense, it's just ugly because it doesn't match a reality where it has a purpose.
Either they have good form factor closed but they suck open or they have good form factor open but they suck closed. They could go with no external screen but it would be much more annoying to use. And I think it says something fundamental about smartphones, that Steve Jobs intuitively understood: it's a good tool when you can pull it out of your pocket and use it in seconds (preferably one-handed when possible). Having a bigger screen but that needs to be unfolded doesn't add any benefits to this primary need and ends up requiring a lot of compromises (weight/volume, compromising pocket ability) for uses cases that are infrequent and would be better served by a typical table anyway. Funnily enough, in those situations you are quite likely to have the bag to carry this solution so the foldable phone becomes moot.
To make things worse, they are ridiculously expensive, often more than what it would cost to buy both an equivalent phone and tablet, which is at the same time stupid and genius. And yes, this is precisely why they are a social status thing. You have to be quite affluent to buy something so practically stupid, you are basically burning cash.
I find folding phones interesting for what they so aptly demonstrate about life in general: no matter how hard you try, you can't have it both ways.
I'm reading your comment like a review of smartphones from a nokia 8210 user
Hey I'll take that as a compliment.
I'll say this: I live in France and when Apple announced the first iPhone, I imported it from the US at great costs. So, it's not like if I am a luddite, I'm just able to understand what's good and useful while you may not.
Im reading this from a fold actually :D it feels like I'm looking at the past
The iPhone was released nearly 20 years ago. This would be like someone in 2007 bragging that they aren't a Luddite because they bought windows 1.0 when it came out.
What are you even saying? It's funny you think I'm bragging.
Here is the thing, people are buying foldables only to show off, the functionality/usefulness makes no sense for the vast majority of people. Which is why they are still expensive and it will stay that way.
Even tech reviewers with infinite choices and zero affordability issues are not using them. If they were any good, they would be using them daily, but it's not the case.
What I'm saying about the first iPhone is that it was good and useful on release day, even though it was a flawed product missing many things that would only come later. And the cost wasn't a problem.
We have had many generations of foldables with improvement/refinements everywhere and they are still nowhere close to being ubiquitous or mainstream. At its 4th generation, Apple was selling 50 million iPhones globally even though it was one of the most expensive phones you could buy. We are in the 6th or 7th generation of foldable and they are not reaching anywhere near those numbers. Even if the price would come close to a regular smartphone it's doubtful that most would pay up because there are other compromises.
Fundamentally, foldables are niche products for tech geeks or people who like to show off, they will stay niche, just like VR and 3D before them.
I have been right on both of those before, do you want to make a bet?
Stop arguing, just go to a store and try a folding phone, there's a reason people see them as the next big unlock
Why would I stop arguing if I like it? Why even be here otherwise?
I have various Samsung foldables in hand, yes. I am definitely impressed by how far they have gotten but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
The flip style is just plain dumb. External display is almost useless and you need to open it to do anything useful. They are smaller when closed but also thicker which just aggravates the bulk at the bottom of your pocket when regular sized phones were fine thickness and heigh wise; and the weight is about the same. For all those compromises you just get a longer screen, which is stupid since the primary mode of interaction is scrolling. Increasing height without increasing width in proportion is useless, you can just fit more stuff vertically that were already convenient to scroll through.
Foldables have more practicality since the external screen is often fully featured and can be used like a regular phone. But that's not a very strong argument since that's what is asked from any basic smartphone, down to the dirt-cheap ones. When open they have decent usefulness at first glance but nowhere near enough to make up for the compromises they require of you. The aspect ratio is always fucked up in order to maintain the external display viability. Even for basic stuff like watching videos, they have a bigger screen for sure but a big part of it goes unexploited. For many typical apps they don't make good use of the larger area because those apps are optimized for scrolling since that's the primary way of managing content for all smartphones (this is very similar to the bigger area in bigger phones that just go to waste for displaying white space, except worse). The "killer" feature is supposed to be multitasking, which for sure they are definitely better at than regular phones. Except the primary limitation for multitasking on phones isn't just the display size. You still have to rely on softwares that are made for quick interactions with a lot of space used for touch target so it is usable with your fingers. There is no hover state and all inputs are made for ease of use primarily, not efficient workflow. Typing can be better at the expense of a large display area for it which largely defeats the purpose of a bigger display. If you were in need of productivity, it makes no sense to still be slowed down by inefficient input and lackluster software. At this point you might as well carry a tablet with a keyboard or a small laptop, if you are going to have enough downtime that this is a reasonable expectation the immediacy of something that you can get out of your pocket isn't very relevant. What's more, because of physical constraint their battery life just sucks. They need to be thin to even be viable, so you end up with less space for batteries because a lot of it is used for the displays and mechanism, yet they consume more power because of the bigger display. So, even for a use case I can get behind like reading, they end up giving you less. You have more space but with a bad aspect ratio and you just end up killing the battery faster compromising the phone viability for the other stuff a phone is useful for in everyday life. You are promised more but in practice you just get less.
When Jobs announced and showed how the iPhone worked, I knew right away they had found the correct recipe. That's because I was using a Windows Mobile "smartphone" at this point and I had experienced first-hand how bad it was in practice at most things. It required stylus input most of the time, creating too much friction for most quick interactions that you require from something living in your pocket. The breakthrough of the iPhone wasn't the hardware; it was the careful design of the software around it that allowed fast and easy interaction for most useful things (even the way you would be able to navigate in desktop class web page before website became fully mobile was quite good). It cames at the cost of functionality and efficiency in the software but that was exactly what made it viable as a pocketable device.
Foldables reintroduce friction while only offering minor benefits that are still worse than something like an iPad Mini that wouldn't add much more friction (instead of having it in your pocket, you need to carry in a small bag) but provide a better experience for basically everything.
There is also the unavoidable problem of the crease (the annoying reflections/diffraction it creates) and the worse feeling/experience of a display that isn't glass covered. To top it off, you end up with durability problems that are plaguing the whole category and aren't solvable unless they come with some glass that would basically be magic considering the science on that.
The reality is that foldables are fundamentally flawed and there is no amount of technical refinement that will change that. To keep the typical smartphone usefulness, you need to compromise the tablet experience and vice-versa. They end up being worse at both use cases while not even saving you money. This fact actually should actually tell you something: they are more expensive than buying both a regular smartphone and small tablet. It makes no sense because they use less materials by definition and the engineering costs should be spread across all units. Since the volume is so small that is not the case. That means they are supply driven items, something that manufacturers are pushing to increase the profit per item and absolutely not something that people are asking for. Which is exactly why they are a show-off luxury item, they make no financial sense and this is actually their primary feature. It allows you to announce to the world you have enough disposable income to not care about practicality. They are just like the impractical sports cars a young fool would buy before he gets financially wiser or the absurdly expensive mechanical watch a successful business executive would buy to announce his success. Except that instead of targeting tiny markets those things have, they are targeting the upper middle class. The per unit profit is lower but the volume is potentially much bigger, there is money to be made thus it gets made.
They remind me of the "multifunction" cooking robots (like the Thermomix) that promise to do everything yet cannot do anything well and efficiently. They have motors that are too slow to make a good blender but too little torque to make a good processor. The jug they use is too large for proper cavitation yet too small to accept raw ingredients without preprocessing. And they don't cost less than the combination of devices with equal capabilities. They are driven by the same marketing fundamentals, as something that adds convenience but actually loses efficiency and quality if you were to try using them for what they pretend to do. Unsurprisingly they target bored middle-class women just like much of the large smartphones, and, ultimately the foldables.
So here it is, I understand why Foldable exists. I get the "reasons" some will get one and I find the engineering prowess very cool. But they will never be the "next big unlock". And they don't have to be, they are not a tool in any practical sense. That's fine but it's just not for me.
The Fold 7 is thin enough that it's a convenient phone when not opened.
It is just below 9mm which I'll agree is impressive. Most of the dimensions are in the acceptable range compared to "Pro" models of competitive brands. But I find those already too much, and a pain to carry in most of my pockets.
It also cost over 2000€ which is more than a Pro iPhone plus iPad combo, while only giving you the benefit of being somewhat pocketable. It is not a better phone and a much worse tablet. If the thing is going too annoying to carry in pocket (particularly when cycling) and requires me to get a bag, I might as well have a bag big enough to carry the superior option which also happens to be cheaper and will get much better battery life (among other things).
It's a niche show-off device of little practicality. It is like small sports coupé cars. I understand why some get them but they will always be a way to attract attention more than anything else.
They're tech demonstrators as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to buy them at 2000€ but they will be 800€ at some point in the near future and I will almost for sure buy one then.
Well if they were to reach that price, they would make a bit more sense since it would mean mostly giving up battery life for a bit more versatility.
But I seriously doubt it will happen in any reasonable time frame. They are fundamentally supply driven, pushed by companies marketing tech they want to sell for a bigger profit.
To become a commodity, the "pro" phones would first need to come down in price so that they are not such a big differentiating factor. Yet the companies keep adding more stuff to those in order to have the price stay around 1K.
Because the rate of improvement has slowed, we can observe the start of price compression, mid-range slab phones have become much more usable and fully featured. But there is a long way to go, Apple has only started this year to trickle down some of the pro features to their base model (mostly pro motion). To get to the 800 figure you need to have regular fully featured slab phones at around the 500 mark otherwise it doesn't make economic sense for companies to sell them at this price.
Considering where we are at this price point with the iPhone 16e (Apple is basically the price setter for much of the market), I wouldn't hold my breath.
I actually predict the reverse. Slab phones will keep getting better in the mid-range, to the point where it's going to be hard to argue for any other choice for most people. Cheap phones will get good enough to the point that they are not completely horrible but will stay a relatively poor value, using older tech in exchange or moderate savings. High-end phones will stay expensive (or even increase in price sightly) with various differentiating "features" and convenience that are unessential but good for bragging point or displaying your superiority. Foldables will stay at the apex and try to have everything of the high-end slabs but with the folding functionality as a bonus.
It is basically what the car market is, which is almost a commodity nowadays. You have the cheap cars that offer everything truly necessary for basic use but make some compromises on quality and technological refinement. Then you have the mid-range that has basically everything you could need at good enough quality/confort level while being technically up to date. And at the high-end of the market, you have the luxurious cars, German style, where you get everything a mid-range car would get you but with better quality and some features that are mostly about bragging rights and social status.
In getting commoditized the smartphone will follow a somewhat normal distribution when considering volume shipped with a larger share of the profits coming from the far end. I expect foldables to stay in that far end for quite a long time. After the iPhone launch, smartphones overtook every other type of phone at every single price point in just a few years. If foldable were going to take over, it would have happened by now, but volume has stalled and even regressed. Maybe they can get it going with major price drops but it hasn't been necessary for the slab smartphones, in fact as usefulness increased, prices increased as well.
I'm going to add that those market dynamics are exactly why we are getting an iPhone Air this year. It is a phone purely made as a differentiation factor to allow for a bigger price while not offering much practical value in return. It is made for people who would spend more than what the base iPhone sell for but also don't really care about any of the features of the "Pro" models because they wouldn't use them much and wouldn't be able to tell the difference in everyday use while paying the cost of weight/size (I don't know why they made the screen bigger than the base pro, there is probably something supply side pushing for this decision). That way they can sell more status than a base phone would provide (that is hilarious equal or better in most relevant specs) while keeping the BOM very close and thus get more profit. Outside of this the phone makes no sense; it's thinness and weight saving have no practical value because they are so small that they cannot fundamentally change the typical experience of using a smartphone.
If Apple can ever get behind the durability/quality compromise of a foldable display it is probably a "try run" for an Apple foldable that would be likely sold at twice the price while not increasing the BOM anywhere near that. It won't be better at much of anything than their pro models but that is basically the point: keep expanding the price range at the high end where profits are still to be made. They know that their basic phone will eventually have to offer even more or lower in price to stay competitive (which is why they increase the base storage ahead of the competition this year). Apple has always been able to extract more profit by staying ahead of the curve in this way. They intuitively understand the social value of technology more than the technology itself, that has made their success. High-end Androids are niche for basically the reverse reason of high-end iPhones dominating the top of the price brackets: no matter how good they get, they will never provide the same social status and coolness of an iPhone. It is thus a bit "stupid" to overspend on a smartphone and it not being an iPhone. Androids' manufacturers have struggled to make their stuff better for this reason, volumes at the high-end cannot warrant the same investment than Apple is able to make. They are constrained by bottom-up economics while Apple has fun with trickle-down economics. For this reason, if Apple is ever to release a foldable, I expect the volume of Android foldables to decrease or lower their price, in the process rendering their primary appeal less effective, still resulting in lower volume over time.
That's the thing, all phones are ugly, but folding phones bring such life improvements that nobody seems to care.
I bought mine because it's useful, it's weird to read that someone would think that it's a status symbol. Are noise canceling headphones a status symbol too for you?
Noise cancelling is a feature and useful. Airpods? Annoying, I can't tell if the person on the sidewalk is trippin' or talking to someone on the phone via their difficult to see airpods.
The functional advantage should be obvious as soon as you open a book or website.
Particularly so if the content has a table, grid, or similar.
Typing isn't perfect, but it's somewhat better.
Photos and images are so much better on the foldable.
For videos the advantage isn't so great, but at least you don't need to rotate the phone. You can watch both horizontal and vertical content.
Considering how most customers prefer a large phone, I'd rather bet on foldables becoming the default.
I mean who cares that much what their metal slab looks like? I jest because I know lots of people do, but it really should be a thing primarily for function. I'd like a foldable if it had as nice cameras as my current phone.
If you make a lot of selfies then the camera is actually better.
When making selfies on a regular phone, you use the front-facing camera which is often sub-par. But with the Samsung Folds, you use the main camera for selfies (you flip open the phone, and see the viewfinder on the outside screen).
I never make selfies
Feels like the iPhone Air is just a test run for Apple's own folding phone. If you attach two iPhone Airs with a hinge and a little extra screen to create one seamless display, and boom, there's your folding iPhone.
If you attached 2 iPhone Airs, you'd have a chonky foldable at 11.2mm getting into territory where people complained with the previous Samsung.
Samsung's current, Fold 7, is 8.9mm closed. Turns out you can actually go thinner than a thin slab like Samsung Edge (5.8mm) or iPhone Air (5.6mm) because you can move components out of one side and put them in the other, including battery. This lets Samsung build a foldable that's 4.2mm when open, meaningfully slimmer than either the Edge or Air.
My guess is Apple's book-style foldable will be ~4mm open and ~8.5mm closed and just edges out Samsung's Fold 8 when they ship next year.
And it's still worse than an Honor Magic
I've had a flip 3 and flip 5 which both had screen and hinge problems within a year. I love the form factor but just don't take it to the beach.
My flip 5 inner screen is currently unusable so I'm stuck using the small square cover screen which I'm enjoying quite a bit too. I don't know if my next phone should be a flip phone or a small phone, but nothing gets as small or as good hardware as the front cover of these flip phones, vs other small phones
I responded in another thread about the iPhone Air that I wanted something from Apple that's smaller than my current iPhone 13 mini. There are at least two of us!
If they made a flip style iPhone that closed smaller than the mini and opened to similar size or only a bigger, I’d definitely buy it.
Samsung Folds 1-6 are kinda bad, much worse than competitors. Samsung Fold 7 is really good, so are Honor phones (V3, V5). Honor folds are sold on Amazon in Europe. Currently own V3 one, 1 year in, so far so good, feels really sturdy.
Flip phones are really the only phone product that actually excites me
Flip phones happened because tech have plateaued, so downstream product development iterated on weird phone casings and keyboard placements.
Why does it excite you?
For me, it's the first true upgrade in the design of a phone in a long time. It's not a slightly better CPU or battery, but a different way to work with this key device in my life. I think it will be the default phone format in ~5 years, especially for younger people.
It reminds me the phones from 2005, they were really cool and smaller in ya pocket
If one is interested in small smartphones, the Unihertz Jelly series of phones might satisfy that interest.
(Amazingly, "small" is roughly the size of the Nexus S... which I found to be the ideal phone size for my large hands.)
I’d love the Jelly, but all of Unihertz’s stuff is basically devoid of software updates :( I’m not gonna buy e-waste.
> I’m not gonna buy e-waste.
e-waste? Their latest phone is running the very same version as the four-year-old Pixel 5a; Android 14.
Incidentally... not only does my Pixel 5a still runs software distributed through the Play Store just fine, its battery life is still quite acceptable.
If you can find me credible evidence that Unihertz will support the device for 5+ years, delivering major version upgrades and timely security patches, then I'll take back what I said. In 2025, a lax approach to the OS lifecycle (especially with security patches) isn't legitimate and respectable.
> If you can find me credible evidence that Unihertz will support the device for 5+ years, delivering major version upgrades and timely security patches...
You don't even get that with most Pixel phones. Through to the Pixel 5 family, you only get three years of updates, period. Through to the Pixel 7 family, you get an additional two of security updates. It's not until the Pixel 8 family that you're getting what you demand.
That's a lot of "e-waste" that Google only recently stopped generating. ;)
But, honestly? I'm not sure why you consider the current five-years-of-updates policy to not be creating an unacceptable amount of e-waste. I have (and still use) nearly-twenty-year-old laptops with the latest Linux kernel and desktop environment software (& etc) versions available. They work just fine. The only maintenance required has been battery replacement and occasional thermal paste replacement. [0]
Only five years of updates? That's an absolutely absurd policy.
[0] Though, it's not clear that the thermal paste actually needed to be replaced... it was just fun to break out the screwdrivers and service manual.
> That's a lot of "e-waste" that Google only recently stopped generating. ;)
Yep, agreed. While my "e-waste" epithet was deliberately inflammatory, I really do have a problem with what they and others were doing before. Thankfully, with newer Pixels (and Galaxies, iirc), that's getting better on the Android side.
> I'm not sure why you consider the current five-years-of-updates policy to not be creating an unacceptable amount of e-waste. I have (and still use) nearly-twenty-year-old laptops with the latest Linux kernel and desktop environment software (& etc) versions available.
You're getting sidetracked from my original point (that Unihertz's practically nonexistent support disqualifies it for me), but I would certainly like to have higher standards! Core smartphone hardware has matured to the point where I would like to see 10+ year lifetimes.
However, you're making a false equivalence here; a smartphone is at the mercy of the vendor to provide updates, while a laptop (thanks to commoditized hardware and a lot of work in the Linux kernel) has a more stable base to work from. Again, if we could reach that place for smartphones, I would be into it. But until we're at the point where you can viably buy a 10+ year-old phone and install a supported operating system (where "supported" includes critical firmware updates), this is a bad comparison.
> ...my original point [was] ... that Unihertz's practically nonexistent support disqualifies it for me...
You are aware that a lot of Android's security-relevant stuff is provided in one or more "apps" [0] that get regularly updated? IIRC, way back in the day Google used to ship all of the system software in one immutable blob that relied on OTA updates. However, Google found that telcos would often take way too long to approve handset updates... so Google split most of the security-relevant code out into something whose update system they fully controlled.
1) Do you know how much security-relevant stuff is contained in the base OS vs those "apps"?
2) Were you aware that Android 14 is still a supported version of Android?
3) Were you aware that Android 13 is also still supported?
4) Did you know that those split out "apps" that I was talking about support all the way back to Android 6?
> However, you're making a false equivalence here...
Nope. You're thinking much too narrowly.
> ...a smartphone is at the mercy of the vendor to provide updates, while a laptop (thanks to commoditized hardware and a lot of work in the Linux kernel) has a more stable base to work from.
You can select laptops that have components that don't work with Linux, or only work with particular kernel versions. That "lot" of work in the Linux kernel that you refer to? A fair chunk of it is "just" working with the various device manufacturers to open source and mainline their drivers.
If Google gave a shit about e-waste, they would have at minimum gotten the relevant phone manufacturers to give Google a source code license to the drivers & etc for the relevant phones and permission to adapt that software to newer kernels and ship compiled binaries in AOSP and Google Android.
But, they didn't do that. So, they clearly don't care.
> Core smartphone hardware has matured to the point where I would like to see 10+ year lifetimes.
We could have seen 10+ year software-support-lifetimes from the phones that shipped with the first commercially-released version of Android. Go take a gander at the huge array of weird-ass one-off device drivers in Linux mainline. "Phone hardware was too immature for it to be adapted to later kernel versions" is a bogus statement.
[0] ...whose name I can no longer remember...
> You are aware that a lot of Android's security-relevant stuff is provided in one or more "apps" [0] that get regularly updated.
Yes, I am aware.
> 1) Do you know how much security-relevant stuff is contained in the base OS vs those "apps"?
No, I'm not very knowledgeable about where the lines get drawn, especially for non-Play-related components. It is a relevant point to make though, and is definitely crucial to this topic. However, from what I can infer (e.g. from blogs and mastodon threads by the GrapheneOS folks), there is plenty of security-relevant OS-level stuff that needs patching over the lifecycle of a device. And firmware-level stuff is almost equally as important. Both these OS-level and firmware-level things are out of scope for these apps that Google pushes.
> 2) Were you aware that Android 14 is still a supported version of Android?
> 3) Were you aware that Android 13 is also still supported?
> 4) Did you know that those split out "apps" that I was talking about support all the way back to Android 6?
Yes. I couldn't have told you that it was Android 6 off the top of my head, but that timeline sounds about right.
> You can select laptops that have components that don't work with Linux, or only work with particular kernel versions. That "lot" of work in the Linux kernel that you refer to? A fair chunk of it is "just" working with the various device manufacturers to open source and mainline their drivers.
That is a good chunk of what I'm referring to, yes. Also in-scope is working with manufactures (of both the device and its components) to provide firmware updates e.g. via fwupd. Afaiu, the baseband for mobile handsets is especially important because it's a highly-privileged component that is
> If Google gave a shit about e-waste, they would have at minimum gotten the relevant phone manufacturers to give Google a source code license to the drivers & etc for the relevant phones and permission to adapt that software to newer kernels and ship compiled binaries in AOSP and Google Android.
> But, they didn't do that. So, they clearly don't care.
I more or less agree with you. But my point isn't that Google cares about e-waste. Rather, my point is that devices with longer lifecycles (e.g. Pixels) are superior to devices with short lifecycles (e.g. Unihertz devices). Which is a pity, because I love so much about the Unihertz design. Almost perfect for me.
> We could have seen 10+ year software-support-lifetimes from the phones that shipped with the first commercially-released version of Android. Go take a gander at the huge array of weird-ass one-off device drivers in Linux mainline. "Phone hardware was too immature for it to be adapted to later kernel versions" is a bogus statement.
I think you've picked out some very specific parts of my response and fixated on those. What I'm saying is that you cannot, in fact, pick up a 10 year-old handset and use it with up-to-date software and firmware[0]. My requirement/desire (which others may not share) is that I should be able to buy a new handset and use it for a bare minimum of 5+ years. As far as I can see, Unihertz's devices do not meet even that pitifully low bar.
[0] Tbh, firmware update support varies greatly for laptop and desktop hardware too. I'm no expert, but seems like lots of room for improvement there.
Can you type with only one hand on a flip phone ?
Do you actually mean "flip"? Because when open, with the screen opened upwards, they have roughly the same dimensions as any modern slab phone. Then it'd come down to whether your hand is big enough to type one-handed on that formfactor (a few women, some men).
If you mean "fold", then probably only while closed, subject to the same hand-size limits. While open, with the screen opened to the left, like a book, they're quite a bit wider than even the largest human hand could reasonably type on.
Sure, just fold it.
I still don't think I'll ever be able to trust a foldable phone. Doesn't matter how many videos you show me of "look, we folded it 200,000 times and it didn't break!", I've repaired enough broken wires and accidentally broken enough ribbon cables to want those things as far from my pocket as possible.
Samsung is no longer leading the pack for folding. They refuse to innovate; Fold 7 is almost identical to Fold 4. Cameras are sub-par and they removed pen support. Meanwhile Honor Magic V5 has pen support on both screens, top of the range cameras, silicon-carbide batteries, and is 4.1mm thick unfolded!
Almost identical? The Fold 4 was 14.2mm thick and weighed 263g while the Fold 7 is 8.9mm and weighs 215g.
The Z Fold 4 feels like two flagships stacked in your pocket. The Fold 7 is lighter than an iPhone Pro max and only a vinyl sticker thicker. It feels identical to a flagship in your pocket but it's got an 8" screen. Not innovative? Where's Apple's innovation toward an 8" smartphone?
Yes, it's 30% thinner... it still has no innovation with cameras, new battery technology, and removal of pen support? I am not comparing it to apple, I'm comparing it to Honor, OnePlus/Vivo, Xiaomi - China has far more development in the folding phone sector at the moment. Their phones have been consistently thinner and lighter and Samsung is only just beginning to catch up.
I have had the fold 7 for 5 weeks (since release day). It's fantastic. My daughter won't touch any other phone now - she loves the big screen. My only gripe is that the fold is a bit tricky to open, otherwise, it's the big breakthrough in phones we have been waiting 10 years for.
I just want smaller phones. Where did they all go?
They are now also foldable! Z Flip 7 - check it.
Apple are in a bind here since the bend/crease will degrade over time. Other manufacturers get a pass on this sort of stuff (just look at Pixel phones not making emergency calls for a prime example), but apple will be hit with fines and class action lawsuits.
Apple sometimes manages to wait out bad ideas: they never gave into the bad idea of touchscreen "convertible" laptops, just conceding the touch bar which is now extinct.
That's a most generous reading of the touchbar fiasco I've ever seen (and I've heard a lot of Apple fans speak).
IMO the touchbar was the least-bad thing about my touchbar 2017 MBP. The butterfly keyboard, flexgate, the USB-C ports that lost their ability to retain cables after like 20 insertions, and the overheating and quickly-degrading battery were much bigger issues.
I didn't really get much value out of the touchbar (never really used any per-app touchbar functionality), but it was mostly fine -- I adjusted to the touchbar escape key pretty quickly.
I wasn't trying to be generous. I was making a nod toward something like malicious compliance. I used to have a big old Mercedes sedan that had the worst cupholder in automotive history that would break as soon as possible. It was designed to pop out of a slot in the center console. But real German car drivers finish their coffee before stepping into the car. That's how I see the touch bar. It was meant to be awful.
The touchbar would've ben great if they also didn't remove the function rows & escape key.
Wait until Apple comes out with a folding phone, they'll say it was the plan all along lol
> the bad idea of touchscreen "convertible" laptops
Is it such a bad idea? I use a convertible Thinkpad to take handwritten notes as well as usual laptop duties. Perhaps it just doesn't fit your usecase, it seems that plenty of these laptops are still being made today.
Granted, my previous Gen 1 Thinkpad had constant motherboard and memory issues - not sure if design flaw, lemon, or otherwise. To their credit, Lenovo warranty repaired it and eventually gave an upgrade (my current device) for no charge.
Don't make it sound like Apple is some sort of victim of regulation who's being picked on the whole time.
They will not get fines and lawsuits if they make a foldable phone with a display that degrades over time.
I do think a move like this will hurt their reputation for making durable devices. They are a victim of their own success a little here.
> Don't make it sound like Apple is some sort of victim of regulation who's being picked on the whole time.
I didn’t say this. I would merely accept other companies being held to the same standard.
> They will not get fines and lawsuits if they make a foldable phone with a display that degrades over time.
This will 100% happen. When it does I will come back and post here.
They never got any significant fine for bendgate, "you're holding it wrong", problematic butterfly keyboards or secretly slowing down iphones due to degraded batteries.
Am I missing some other blunder?
Antennagate : https://www.theverge.com/2012/2/17/2807511/apple-settles-ant...
Butterfly: https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/
Batterygate: multiple countries. Here’s Canada: https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-pay-c144-mln-settle... US: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/18/apple-f...
Nothing for bendgate
Yes, a lot of the time they settle, so no admission of guilt but it still costs them money.
> They will not get fines and lawsuits if they make a foldable phone with a display that degrades over time.
They got lawsuits because of batteries that degraded over time.
They got lawsuits because they purposely chose a battery that would not be sufficient after a few years of use because they wanted a thin phone, and instead of copping to that and providing support for users to cheaply and easily replace such underspecced batteries, they silently updated their OS to just throttle itself to death to "fix" it.
These batteries were not fit for purpose. The phone design was defective. It literally could not manage after normal and expected degradation.
Imagine if, after Microsoft failed to build the Xbox 360 correctly, they just silently throttled all the machines to reduce the chance they would fail, rather than what they had to do, which was replace all the defective machines, 25% of the fleet, on their own dime.
In most countries that aren't the USA, consumers have a right to expect their products to work for some time and be fit for purpose. Apple blatantly violated that right, and used a quiet software update to hide that.
Apple loves to just deny and ignore their design failures. It used to be the norm for Macbooks to just cook their GPU to death, and apple would always refuse to acknowledge such things until they settled the lawsuit and quietly put up some sort of "we will fix this at your expense" program.
Well not really. Apple ignored bendgate for ages, they ignored butterfly issues for ages, antennagate as well - to whicjbt they told customers "you're holding it wrong".
As for other manufacturers not being held liable, Galaxy Note 7 had plenty of related lawsuits and customer action holding them accountable amongst many other cases of the same.
Apple is just a company like any other.
The newest thin fold looks amazing but I can't justify a $2K phone idk maybe I'm just poor. Like I used to want a Lamborghini Aventador but now I just want a Lotus Exige. $300K seems too much too me but again is it a poor/mindset thing. I think a land would be better use of that money.
Mindset as in levels... I used to be afraid of my $30K student debt while I was in school thinking getting an engineering job that pays $60K would be great but now I make more than that and my debt is also beyond $30K so yeah levels.
lol, what is going on inside this comment, you're like whiplashing between having preferences and explaining why you should want fancy things but then actually you don't.
like... it's completely okay to not want something expensive not because you're poor but because you just don't want to spend money on it; your preferences for what's worth money to you don't have to be justified to anyone else. Except for maybe your family.
Personally I don't have any desire to buy any of those expensive things at all, because I don't even notice their existence, but that's just me. Seems better to be minimalistic. Similarly, to not have any debt, because why would you want to be more stressed and tied to a job than the minimum possible? But maybe it's different if your friends / social circle cares about shiny things or something.
Yeah I'm working on the debt part
The car thing I like driving fast/sporty cars, cheapest one for performance would be an older Corvette but yeah (not saying Lambo is performance, that one it's the looks, Exige though is both though different eg. acceleration/curve handling vs. top speed).
I'm just saying, there was a guy I was talking to who owned a Lambo and he's like "if it went up in flames I'd be fine", it's like I have to get to that headspace or maybe I'm not built that way not sure
But yeah I do go back and forward between wanting things/feeling guilty for being better off than others
It sounds like you're trying to feel what you're supposed to feel according to other people, and then feeling anxious about that's not how you actually feel? which sounds hard. I'm pretty sure the only way to be that makes any sense, however, is to feel what you actually feel, and if someone tries to make that seem wrong or bad, tell them (mentally or out loud) to fuck off. It's not possible to force yourself to feel differently than you feel--that's, like, what a feeling is. If something makes you think you should modify your feelings, it's wrong, like it's a complete category error; you can only react to them, not will them to change.
Not that I don't fall in the same trap, but, y'know, it's an aspiration.
and personally I'd judge the hell out of someone who owned a lambo and didn't care about it going up in flames. We get it, they want people to think they're so rich that they don't care about their own possessions. All I hear is a person try to say certain things in order to make you find them impressive.
the fold 7 genuinely made me want to get a foldable for the first time, was that sleek. if it wasn't for being captive to the apple ecosystem i would strongly consider it (and may do so).
i think with agentic coding now my ideal setup would be to be able to walk away and remote in from my heavy desktop/laptop w/ just my phone and check in on stuff and do some light work, etc.
obviously i would still have my laptop but i wouldn't have to lug it around everywhere.
I gave that a try, but it wasn't particularly economic.
I considered buying a keyboard for this case. I then decided against it. Probably carrying a MacBook Air makes more sense if I want to get work done on the go.
That said, I'm happy with my new Pixel 9 PF. It's better than the iPhone 16 Pro Max.
I also own various Apple devices, but I can't say there's any ecosystem integration I particularly miss.
Instead of iCloud I just use Google Drive now. I can still do facetime calls on my Mac. Also I continue to use the Home app on the iPhone.
At some point when second-hand folding phones decrease in cost I'd like to get one as a second device just as a compact pocketable datasheet/PDF reader for engineering/electronics work. I think having a tablet sized screen without the bulk would be a huge bonus.
I recently tried an old industrial head-mounted display (Realwear HMT-1), but the display resolution is not good.
I was sceptical about this for factor seeing as it seemed like a gimmicky throwback to the early to mid 2000s.
But honestly, now that I've played around with Samsungs offerings I get it. Back in the day phones had quite a bit of personality, and Samsung really nailed that aspect.
I definitely did not see that coming. In my mind, foldable phones were the 3D TV of the phones.
Interesting development though. Nice to see something that is both cool looking and, apparently, useful getting traction.
People who have them love them. I think there's truth to the idea that iPhone Air is a stepping stone to a foldable with thin halves.
Everyone is forgetting that Apple had a foldable phone in 2014/15
Seems like people in this thread cant take a joke.
Lie.
They're joking about "bendgate" (the iPhone 6 was not very rigid).
bendghazi*
I still do not understand the appeal of a folding phone. I mean, phones are solid devices now, and they work for years upon years if you don't have some kind of mishap. Putting a hinge in the display 100% is creating a weak point in that display. It's very likely going to reduce lifespan for an expensive device.
I get gadgetlust, sure, but is it more that that?
The other thing is that even if I wanted a folding display, it wouldn't be enough to get me to jump platforms.
I think there are two factors that drive the purchase. Primarily - it's a status symbol. I am reminded of the scene with Paul Allen's business card...
But also that it's useful when you want a larger display surface in a more portable form. Like watching films on an airplane or reading documents without having to constantly swipe & zoom.
I agree with the other poster(s) that Apple is likely working on a folding model, even though it would sabotage sales of some iPad models.
It's funny now that Apple is speculated to have a foldable phone on the drawing board, I can hear in real time all the tech "journalists" swinging their viewpoints around from considering it a joke to saying what a good idea it is and how they can't wait for it. Some of them already talking like Apple invented it, before they even have a product. Seems like Apple still has the reality distortion field.
It would be nice if the extra room when unfolded could be used for a real keyboard. Probably too thin for one, though.
Just incase people were confused like me, this article is a bit dated and published Aug 16th.
This article seems a bit silly.
If we look at Q3 and Q4 sales, I bet it shows Apple increasing its share of phones shipped.
Comparing one company’s share in a quarter where they launch new devices to another company’s share when that company launched no new devices is, frankly, stupid.
Call me old fashioned but I hope Apple always keeps the iphone without folding, and always keeps ipad.
I love both devices for different things, I don’t want them smushed together.
Try introducing a memory card slot… and a headphone jack. Then you’ll really sail past them.
Most of the foldables I’ve seen around here, are the new Razr phones.
I think they are pretty cool.
Haven’t seen many, though.
I’ve only seen one Samsung.
Honestly the OnePlus 13 is looking better than either the iPhone or Samsungs to me. It’s a great time to be in the market for a new smartphone!
I'm curious how quickly that trend will reverse when Google fulfills their promise to lock down sideloading on android.
Samsung makes nice hardware, but their bloatware is infuriating. I spend a lot of time on every new device, using ADB to purge as many samsung apps as I can. I'm getting tired of doing it.
Once I can't sideload anymore on android, my next phone will be an iphone.
The trend, if there is one, will be effected in no measurable way when a few nerds bail because they can't remove Samsung's browser.
By the way, outside of core phone features like Phone (dialer,) Settings, Camera, etc. you can disable or uninstall everything else without sideloading anything.
Very, very, very few consumers even know what sideloading is
Unfortunately, very few people care about sideloading.
And for those who do, Apple has been blocking sideloading for years.
The actual solution is to buy a phone that supports GrapheneOS. No bloatware, install what you want, and get top class security and privacy too.
I love the idea of them, but I just can't trust the basically plastic surface of them. Scratches/dents too easily.
I mean there's only Samsung and LG in the display space basically, one of them will solve it but...not quite yet.
I have got Samsung S25 Edge which is essentially Samsung's version of iPhone 17 Air few months ago.
Only thing (software wise) which has really been showed down my throat is Bixby and Gemini. No I don't want your stupid AI, get deleted. Other than that, I can't complain about anything.
[dead]
BUT WHY?
It costs 2000 dollars and folds in half. So what? What's the difference?
Do they have a hinge monitor so you can make them fart when you fold and unfold them?
Apple is probably baffled as to why 10 generations of foldable by the competition my set them back some. I guarantee one day Apple will figure out how to put touch in a laptop and it will be world changing </s> I can’t name a single real iPhone innovation in a decade.
Foldables are a fad. Yeah, you can doomscroll with a bigger screen, but having to baby it? Also foldables, even when folded are bulkier. For whatever usecases for foldables, a tablet is more suitable.
Believe it or not people use phones for different purposes. Some people carry phones in bags or purses where space not a not a big concern. Some people use their phones for work and a bigger screen is helpful in the process and for multitasking. Some people aren't rough with their phones either.
A fad doesn't last this long. We are on year 7 of foldables available in the mainstream and sales and production are only increasing. Every major OEM has at least foldable or is releasing one soon. 3D TV's were fully dead in 7 years for context.
I'll be totally honest, I do not get the appeal of foldable phones, at least with the designs I've seen so far.
I guess you can unfold it to get a bigger 2-part screen? That's about it?
I'd imagine that having it be un-foldable compromises the battery life, overall thickness (when folded) and weight to at least some extent - plus it costs way more. Is the additional screen real-estate really worth that?
If your eyes are young and you only use the phone alone. If you are older you need reading glasses for small screens. If you are showing a video to someone else you need a larger screen to see detail.
of course not knowing you or your uses I can't say if any of this should matter to you. Still it seems like a nice idia not a fad. Only time will tell if people really want it once the fad is over.
> it be un-foldable compromises the battery life, overall thickness (when folded) and weight to at least some extent
Not as much as you would think.
The Galaxy Fold 7 has a 6.5" outer screen (as compared to 6.3" screen in the iPhone 16 pro), is 8.9mm thick when folded (8.25mm in the iPhone 16 pro), has a 4400mAh battery (3,582 mAh in the iPhone 16 pro), and weighs 215g (199 grams for the iPhone 16 pro).
> plus it costs way more
The big downsides are price of $1999 launch price as compared to $999 launch price for the iphone 16 pro and durability. For durability, the foldable screens seem to be very soft making it easy to damage, say with a thumbnail.
I could see it for older people.
My mom and uncles all use extremely large font sizes, they’re barely able to see a whole text at once and they check pictures by traversing them while highly zoomed.
It doesn’t appeal to me either, but I’ve often heard “functionality, taken to an extreme, becomes fashion”. I think that might be what’s happening here. There are _some_ cases in which you might want a foldable phone. But even if you don’t need it, a (good) foldable phone becomes a status symbol.
See also: expensive mechanical watches, sports cars, bottles that hold temperature for 24 hours
I’d much rather have a screen that unfurls like a scroll.
Checkout Huawei Mate XT: 2 folds
It could be an SNL skit
I hope the iPhone Air is successful. Folding phones seems so obviously a gimmick. A year from now many of these relatively affordable folding phones will be e-trash, and social media will be full of complaints and retrospective wisdom about how they could never have been reliable. But consumer product offerings are full of gimmicks. Apple is trying not to give into herd mentality.
My parents are both on their third flip phones. Some people really like the form factor
It's funny. When/If Apple releases a foldable iPhone, suddenly most of these critics will think it's the greatest idea ever.
Just like Apple released touchscreen laptops, amirite? They were a bad idea and a crime against ergonomics.
This but unironically. The funniest product in Apple's lineup right now, bar none, is the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. Apple spent 15 years refining their replacement for the laptop, and it's a touchscreen laptop that runs less software.
You'd think that Apple would stop themselves after reinventing the 2013 Microsoft Surface. Then they reprised Hololens with Vision Pro - how was nobody paying attention to Microsoft's failures at Cupertino?
tbh, Apple lost the plot for the iPad with iPadOS 26.
They brought floating windows, a menu bar, and more mouse and keyboard features but then took away the UX that made it a great touch tablet - no more slide over, and no more quick split view you have to drag the windows your self or tap the green dot and then choose your split ratio - too many extra clicks.
They managed to turn it from a great tablet to a shitty laptop to the point that now I don't even see a reason for owning one if you have a macbook air, unless you REALLY need the pencil.
It's a touchscreen laptop that runs less software and somehow costs more than the actually great laptop they sell at similar size. That magic keyboard pricing is... woof.
Wdym? Why act like the iPhone air is the start of the thin phone trend when the Samsung edge came out before it, and I'm sure plenty of other specifically targeting thinness phones came out even before that. Sounds like Apple is giving into "herd mentality" (which isn't actually a bad thing as long as the herd follows consumer needs).
Oh, but then it wouldn't be a special little club.
The iPhone Air will quite likely be successful, but it's also plainly a gimmick.
Folding phone user here, you will have one in the next 5 years for sure