I don't understand how Jaguar/Land Rover is still even a thing. This is unrelated to the hack, but they consistently make the most unreliable vehicles you can buy.
When I had my import repair shop, I made a fortune repairing Jags and LRs. My business partner named his lake house 'Discovery' because of all the money we made off of those things.
I believe this used to be a thing absolutely, but something seem to change ~2012 where they seemingly went from some of the least reliable luxury cars on the market to some of the most - but the hangover from 50 years of unreliability will plague them for years to come I'm sure. The tests and standards they need to pass to get out of the design and manufacturing departments are pretty staggering now (compared to the tire kick tests they used to), and general reports from mechanics in forums I frequent and people I meet at car meets is that a modernish JLR will keep on ticking provided they're serviced every year.
Honestly, I've been eyeing up a 2015 Jaguar F-Type for a while now. It was a £85k car depending on trimming that you can pick up for £20k now with a V6 supercharged VS. An old-school style coupe, without all the modern ADAS beeping and handholding, that will just plod away if you look after it seems very appealing.
I wish you luck. I wouldn't buy the 2015 unless they've documented the timing service and give you a warranty. And don't park it outside. I'm not exaggerating when I say (I believe I've even shared this in a previous comments years ago) that every single Jaguar I've ever serviced has had wiring damage due to rodents.
I believe it's something to do with the coating they use on their wiring and harnesses. But I never had a Jaguar in my shop that didn't suffer from some type of wiring damage as a result of rodents chewing on the wiring.
I believe it's something to do with the coating they use on their wiring and harnesses
Soy-based wiring insulation. And it’s not just Jag/LR, Honda had enough of a problem that they wrap their insulation in a tape with capsaicin (active ingredient in peppers) to keep the mice away.
Isn't this common? I have had rodents eat wires in my car 3 times in the last 5 year. (It's not a Jag or LR). My friends have complained about this happening with their vehicles too. Or has there been any new development of some kind of "rodent-resistant" wiring?
Honda makes an anti-rodent tape that's designed for wrapping wiring. It's loaded with capsaicin so any critter that bites down will quickly decide to stop. It's possible other manufacturers are exploring similar ideas.
It may be common, but in my ~20 years of pushing wrenches, I've only ever seen that issues on Jaguars and Land Rovers. Unless we're talking about long abandoned cars that have sat outside for years.
I had a 2015 f type. The day before it was to be transferred to the new owner, the engine smoked out on the highway. I don’t recall why, might have been an oil leak.
My wife had a Toyota at one point which developed an interesting fault - all of the internal electrics would cut out at random times.
Turns out the cause was a leaking sunroof!
Water got in through the sunroof and the genius design had some kind of electric junction box (or fuses or something) at the lowest point of the passengers footwell. So water got in, flowed to where all the electrics were and things stopped working.
Fortunately it doesn't rain that often here in Scotland so it wasn't a big problem ;-)
That happened to a friends Benz when he bought it second hand. Water had leaked in the drivers window, maybe it was left open, and shorted the switch cluster on the drivers door. That took out the entire CAN network and the car had no lights save for brake lights, no HVAC and no entertainment system. Fixed it himself for like two hundred bucks for a new switch cluster.
I had a similar problem with the VW Passat I had at the time - the drain hole from the battery compartment got blocked and when it rained it overflowed into the interior of the car - I was wondering for ages why there was this sloshing noise each time I went round a corner - the back of the car had about 1cm of water in it!
Had to get the dealer to remove all the seats and carpets and dry thing out.
-> Reading this as a European with one small electric car, the idea that two V8 vehicles could be considered the perfect vehicle choice is quite out there!
The Toyota/Lexus 4.7L and 5.7L engines are pretty much the two most reliable V8s ever put into production vehicles. The Chevrolet 6.0 is probably the only other V8 that would possibly come close to the reliability afforded by the Toyota/Lexus V8s.
That is the American way. For some reason they often need huge truck for single person to commute to the work.
I had for a few years mini cooper 5d - amazing vehicle. Fun to drive, quite reliable. Of course, that mini will not be comfortable for "plus" size people. Maybe that is the main reason why trucks are so popular in the US.
In the UK they don't have CCS plugs though, only chademo so they're as good as useless (or at least didn't when I was looking to buy semi-recently). What a retarded technical decision - makes you wonder what other stupid decisions they've made that you can't see. As such it is very very rare to see a lexus EV in the UK
My father has a Lexus and the interior design and dash system are the worst I've ever seen, full stop. The weird touchpad that barely works. The sheer amount of buttons and options that 99% of people don't use 99% of the time. The way it handles maps while listening to music. The impossibility of going back and forth between sections while driving. I'm sure they're fine cars, but my god what an atrocity of user experience on the inside.
>the Porsche 911 is one of the most reliable vehicles on the road
There's a joke in my country: A guy stops at a red light next to a Ferrari and asks the Ferrari driver: "Are those cars any good? Because and I don't see too many people buying them."
Upper middle class Americans are weirdly obsessed about LR, especially the new Defender. Jaguar I'm not sure how it survives (if it even really does nowadays).
I'm definitely biased because I own Land Cruisers, but it's wild watching people throw many away on an inferior product like the Defender. I think I'd rather have a Wrangler than a Defender and that says a whole lot.
Our family has owned a '97 Defender 110 (originally bought for my parents' surveying business) for about 16 years now and I still don't understand how some people used to buy these for status. Not having owned a Land Cruiser (but am a happy owner of a Prius) or a Wrangler, I'd probably choose the Toyota over the Land Rover and leave the Jeep in the last place, though I do like the early generations.
I remember when I was a teen and saw "She's All That". The protagonist in the film drove a Defender. I fell in love with them and wanted one badly. Then I moved to the Caribbean a few months later and met people with them. It was nothing but horror stories. So I did what any sensible person would do and bought a Jeep Scrambler. That was dumb.
Based on all of my anecdotes from being in the repair industry for years, the only vehicles I will ever own are Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus.
I've known a few people who were obsessed with Land Rovers - often severely dilapidated ex-forces ones. The horror stories almost seemed to be the point - a bonding experience almost...
Car obsession appears to be highly regional. In the Pacific Northwest, it is amusing how many Subaru vehicles you will find. To the point that it is always odd to go back to Atlanta and see how few are there. It would be interesting to see this mapped out.
For Land Rovers, specifically, I definitely recall seeing more when I lived in the south. Though, nowadays I think I notice Kia more. That is almost certainly just noticing more, though?
What region are new Land Rovers popular in? In the southeast I mostly see young guys with an ancient units with 200k+ miles that they bought cheap and refuse the let them die. I rarely see new units on the road.
They’re all over Redmond, WA. Not nearly as common as Teslas (the “Redmond Camry”), but I guarantee I’ll see a late-model LR every time I drive somewhere. There’s probably at least one near my house every day at school drop-off/pickup time.
I honestly don't know, so was surprised to see them listed as a popular choice anywhere and meant my comment just to ack that it is ridiculously regional.
the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built. It has terrible off-road capability even compared to the other (non Defender models like the Range). JLR alienated their entire existing Defender drivers where hardly any of them would buy this new model.
Granted, they also alienated their user base when the traditional TDI was replaced with the TD5 and then more alienation when they introduced the TD4.
But the latest thing (L663) has nothing in common with any of the previous models. (probably due to pedestrian safety laws becoming more strict)
> the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built
No it isn't. I own a 2022 D90 P300 with 18" wheels, coils, front jump seat, everything. It's been great for ~40,000 miles. I'm constantly on dirt and rocky roads here. It's never let me down.
They're used by tons of people for offroading and modified heavily as well, with companies like Sarek, Lucky8, etc.
The only people who hate on new Defenders are the ones that love the ~25 year old versions with 200,000 miles, tons of rust, a diesel engine that can barely make it to highway speeds, and spends more time in the garage every weekend than "exploring." But hey, they're cooler than us because they work on their cars and have a manual transmission.
Same. My in-laws are Toyota Land Cruiser people, heavily involved with the local clubs. FIL even runs their driver training programs. Was very anti us getting a Defender and said we'd regret it. When we did the training the main problem we had was getting it stuck, because part of the training was learning how to use a winch or straps to get yourself out when you're bogged. We were able to drive out of anything. Now his only criticism is it's not as much fun to drive because it takes less skill (which is exactly what I wanted. I want to get places, not necessarily challenge myself to get there though). It's also a much better finish than the Toyotas. It's not much more expensive than their latest fully optioned Land Cruiser, but everything about the inside of LC feels like it's not been updated since the late 90s. And plenty about it that actually feels cheap (and before anyone weighs in, not in a way that is designed to wear and tear. Just cheap and lazy).
The few annoyances we've had LR have resolved for us at zero cost, even when we were out of warranty.
Yup, the new Defender is amazing. I use mine as a daily driver and love it. You can drive 4,000 miles across country in comfort/luxury and then still have advanced off-roading capabilities in mud, sand, rocks, etc. It's the best of both worlds. All with a warranty.
What's funnier is most of the "new" Defender owners I meet love the old ones (including me, I miss driving manual.) It's the old owners that still seem to have an attitude (calling them "Pretenders", etc.)
The problem I see, is that while the electronic assists and auto gearbox are great in general and win over the older generation everytime in comparisons, having a mild electrical problem or a malfunction in any electronic module would render it basically unusable.
My father told me many stories about the old Land Rovers they had in the military service in Spain. One time, he successfully climbed a hill with two captains after snapping the back axle (the one coming from the transfer case), by locking the differential. These new machines rely too much on electronics without backup, I believe.
Also, and this is fully my opinion, I would never take an automatix off-road.
Ha ha, I had a Disco. It's the only vehicle I bought an extended warranty on. It's the only extended warranty I ever heard of that was worth buying. For starters: the fuel pump quit a couple blocks away from the dealership.
I live ~90 minutes from Atlanta. Used 'luxury' autos would start showing up on used car lots around Atlanta as soon as their manufacturer's warranty expired.
I had scores of customers who would test drives these vehicles (Usually a LR, a Mini, a V8 Audi, or a V8 BMW) and bring them all the way to me for prepurchase inspections. I would tell them every single time "do not buy this vehicle." Then they would buy it and my employees and I would wager on how long it took the vehicle to be towed in for repairs.
And the type of people who buy used luxury vehicles from lots in Atlanta are also the type of people that cannot afford any repairs. So I ended up with many abandoned LRs, Audis, Minis, and BMWs all over my lot. Then I had to jump through all of the hoops to get the titles and have them sold and towed away.
They’re extremely temperamental vehicles because they’re not fit for purpose.
The original Range Rover is an upmarket agricultural vehicle, and used the same platform from 1970 until the 2000s. When you actually use them as intended, for off road farm work you realise they’re better off road than they are on road.
I used to drive for five years (2015-2020) a 2009 naturally aspirated petrol Jaguar XF and it had zero issues except a single vacuum hose leak during my 100 000 kilometers (from 120 000 to 220 000) or so. The original rear upper wishbone arms were replaced and no more than expected normal wear & tear brake part replacements were needed. I still sometimes think that I'd like to have one again because in my opinion it was a quite nice and comfortable ride and turned out to be very good value as a used vehicle!
Maybe I had some kind of exception or are there dramatic differences between models and engines?
We had a 2003 Jag S-Type, and it was as reliable as anything else we’ve had. Only had it for three years, bought used in 2006, and didn’t do anything to it. This was back in the days of Ford ownership, though, and it was really a Lincoln Something chassis with a Jag body and badges. Granted, that was a long time ago, but I imagine the underlying chassis has a lot to do with the reliability.
Anecdata I have a 2017 F-Type R. It's a daily driver and does not get babied. Has been essentially bulletproof, a couple of minor repairs, but nothing different than any other vehicle I have ever owned.
My coworker is a big classic Disco fan, has two, and he is constantly fucking with leaks, rust, and electricals. He does all his own work but man, seems like a never ending hobby.
My mechanic friends say the same. The Range Rover is the best looking suv imo and looks over shop time for those that can afford it. That said, no mechanical issues with my 2020 sport.
Because people buy them as a status symbol. Middle aged mum dropping her kids off at school definitely needs a range rover, otherwise what will the other mummies think?
Similarly, Italian design house Pininfarina is owned by Mahindra (another Indian auto co that only sells SUVs).
As an Indian auto enthusiast, I’m both happy, but wish more came out of it. (Insert meme of guy poking something with a stick and saying “Go on, do something”)
I think the Lamborghini that makes tractors has always been a separate legal entity from the one that makes cars (now part of the VW Group) - both founded by the same chap though.
The back story for Tata buying the group off Ford is interesting.
Tata had approached Ford in 1998 proposing some kind of partnership for their first passenger hatchback.
Apparently Ford officials were arrogant and dismissive so it became a personal matter for Ratan Tata, and when Ford was in trouble, he bought the brand off them.
If you wanted to shut down the line to create maneuvering room as US exports are blocked by tariffs. You could either just do it and take a massive political hit and sour relations with suppliers, or you can get a cheep 1.5 billion pound loan...
The main issue appears to be that the attack crippled JLR’s internal systems and production databases, preventing them from manufacturing new cars because they cannot properly track parts or generate serial numbers.
I’ve also read reports claiming that around 40k vehicles have already been built but are now essentially “ghost cars” since they aren’t registered in the system.
Imagine what would happen if JLR had to issue a safety recall without knowing which components are installed in which vehicles.
Did they not have a disaster recovery plan in place? It's not amazing that they got hit with a breach. It's amazing that they couldn't just "nuke from orbit" and start with a day-old snapshot (yeah, that's massively oversimplified, but still, it shouldn't take months and $billions$ to recover either).
And that 40k ghost car doesn't sound realistic. LR only makes ~400k vehicles/year. That 10% of their annual output got "lost" beggars belief.
From their point of view it was a good plan - given JLR is owned by Tata who had the resources to bail them out and didn't they (Tata) likely see it as a good deal.
Late stage capitalism in action as usual - privatise the profits, socialise the costs.
Technically what the government did was underwrite the loan but again - why is the government underwriting the loan when Tata has the resources to do that (13bn net income at last FY).
> The breach was enabled through stolen Jira credentials harvested via Infostealer malware, a known hallmark of HELLCAT’s operations. The exposed data includes development logs, tracking information, source code, and a large employee dataset with usernames, email addresses, display names, and time zones. The presence of verified employee information from JLR’s global workforce raises significant concerns about identity theft and targeted phishing campaigns.
then
> the JLR breach escalated when a second threat actor, “APTS,” appeared on DarkForums on March 14, 2025. APTS claimed to have exploited Infostealer credentials dating back to 2021, belonging to an employee who held third-party access to JLR’s Jira server. Using these compromised credentials, the actor gained entry and shared a screenshot of a Jira dashboard as proof. APTS also leaked an additional tranche of sensitive data, estimated at around 350 GB, which contained information not included in Rey’s original dump, further amplifying the scale and severity of the breach.
> In 2023, as part of an effort to "accelerate digital transformation across its business", JLR signed a five-year, £800m deal with corporate stablemate Tata Consultancy Services to provide cybersecurity and a range of other IT services.
I found this hilarious in another article. Lol so you sold the company to India Tata Motors and then you went full incest and had your IT done by Tata Consultancy Services.
I don't understand how Jaguar/Land Rover is still even a thing. This is unrelated to the hack, but they consistently make the most unreliable vehicles you can buy.
When I had my import repair shop, I made a fortune repairing Jags and LRs. My business partner named his lake house 'Discovery' because of all the money we made off of those things.
I believe this used to be a thing absolutely, but something seem to change ~2012 where they seemingly went from some of the least reliable luxury cars on the market to some of the most - but the hangover from 50 years of unreliability will plague them for years to come I'm sure. The tests and standards they need to pass to get out of the design and manufacturing departments are pretty staggering now (compared to the tire kick tests they used to), and general reports from mechanics in forums I frequent and people I meet at car meets is that a modernish JLR will keep on ticking provided they're serviced every year.
Honestly, I've been eyeing up a 2015 Jaguar F-Type for a while now. It was a £85k car depending on trimming that you can pick up for £20k now with a V6 supercharged VS. An old-school style coupe, without all the modern ADAS beeping and handholding, that will just plod away if you look after it seems very appealing.
I wish you luck. I wouldn't buy the 2015 unless they've documented the timing service and give you a warranty. And don't park it outside. I'm not exaggerating when I say (I believe I've even shared this in a previous comments years ago) that every single Jaguar I've ever serviced has had wiring damage due to rodents.
I believe it's something to do with the coating they use on their wiring and harnesses. But I never had a Jaguar in my shop that didn't suffer from some type of wiring damage as a result of rodents chewing on the wiring.
I believe it's something to do with the coating they use on their wiring and harnesses
Soy-based wiring insulation. And it’s not just Jag/LR, Honda had enough of a problem that they wrap their insulation in a tape with capsaicin (active ingredient in peppers) to keep the mice away.
Isn't this common? I have had rodents eat wires in my car 3 times in the last 5 year. (It's not a Jag or LR). My friends have complained about this happening with their vehicles too. Or has there been any new development of some kind of "rodent-resistant" wiring?
Honda makes an anti-rodent tape that's designed for wrapping wiring. It's loaded with capsaicin so any critter that bites down will quickly decide to stop. It's possible other manufacturers are exploring similar ideas.
It may be common, but in my ~20 years of pushing wrenches, I've only ever seen that issues on Jaguars and Land Rovers. Unless we're talking about long abandoned cars that have sat outside for years.
I had a 2015 f type. The day before it was to be transferred to the new owner, the engine smoked out on the highway. I don’t recall why, might have been an oil leak.
Does any luxury brand ever make economic sense?
It's all about status. If you want a reliable car, you buy a Toyota.
My wife had a Toyota at one point which developed an interesting fault - all of the internal electrics would cut out at random times.
Turns out the cause was a leaking sunroof!
Water got in through the sunroof and the genius design had some kind of electric junction box (or fuses or something) at the lowest point of the passengers footwell. So water got in, flowed to where all the electrics were and things stopped working.
Fortunately it doesn't rain that often here in Scotland so it wasn't a big problem ;-)
That happened to a friends Benz when he bought it second hand. Water had leaked in the drivers window, maybe it was left open, and shorted the switch cluster on the drivers door. That took out the entire CAN network and the car had no lights save for brake lights, no HVAC and no entertainment system. Fixed it himself for like two hundred bucks for a new switch cluster.
I had a similar problem with the VW Passat I had at the time - the drain hole from the battery compartment got blocked and when it rained it overflowed into the interior of the car - I was wondering for ages why there was this sloshing noise each time I went round a corner - the back of the car had about 1cm of water in it!
Had to get the dealer to remove all the seats and carpets and dry thing out.
Lexus. IMHO, Lexus is the smartest vehicle purchase (other than a Toyota) that you make.
A Lexus LS and a Toyota Land Cruiser are the perfect pair of vehicles for someone to own. There will always be at least one of each in my garage.
Of course that's only true if you get the V8 modals of each. I wouldn't touch the new LS or new Land Cruiser unless they were given to me for free.
Hehe, things only an American would say!
-> Reading this as a European with one small electric car, the idea that two V8 vehicles could be considered the perfect vehicle choice is quite out there!
The Toyota/Lexus 4.7L and 5.7L engines are pretty much the two most reliable V8s ever put into production vehicles. The Chevrolet 6.0 is probably the only other V8 that would possibly come close to the reliability afforded by the Toyota/Lexus V8s.
Yeah, but why do you need a 4+ liter engine in a family car?
That is the American way. For some reason they often need huge truck for single person to commute to the work.
I had for a few years mini cooper 5d - amazing vehicle. Fun to drive, quite reliable. Of course, that mini will not be comfortable for "plus" size people. Maybe that is the main reason why trucks are so popular in the US.
We pay almost $10 per gallon of Euro 95.
That’s 4-6x more litres than car needs.
The current V8 in the Chevy C8 corvette (I think it’s a 5.5) is also regarded as extremely reliable. Unfortunately, the transmission is not.
What don’t you like about the new LS and Land Cruisers? Is it just that the US market only gets the hybrids, or something more fundamental?
In the UK they don't have CCS plugs though, only chademo so they're as good as useless (or at least didn't when I was looking to buy semi-recently). What a retarded technical decision - makes you wonder what other stupid decisions they've made that you can't see. As such it is very very rare to see a lexus EV in the UK
My father has a Lexus and the interior design and dash system are the worst I've ever seen, full stop. The weird touchpad that barely works. The sheer amount of buttons and options that 99% of people don't use 99% of the time. The way it handles maps while listening to music. The impossibility of going back and forth between sections while driving. I'm sure they're fine cars, but my god what an atrocity of user experience on the inside.
In my experience, and I believe surveys and statistics bear this out, the Porsche 911 is one of the most reliable vehicles on the road.
>the Porsche 911 is one of the most reliable vehicles on the road
There's a joke in my country: A guy stops at a red light next to a Ferrari and asks the Ferrari driver: "Are those cars any good? Because and I don't see too many people buying them."
Ha, I didn't think trolling was allowed on HN.
Not trolling! They are incredibly well built.
I don't know if this counts but a quick look shows: https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2025/porsche/911
That has been mine.
Upper middle class Americans are weirdly obsessed about LR, especially the new Defender. Jaguar I'm not sure how it survives (if it even really does nowadays).
I'm definitely biased because I own Land Cruisers, but it's wild watching people throw many away on an inferior product like the Defender. I think I'd rather have a Wrangler than a Defender and that says a whole lot.
Our family has owned a '97 Defender 110 (originally bought for my parents' surveying business) for about 16 years now and I still don't understand how some people used to buy these for status. Not having owned a Land Cruiser (but am a happy owner of a Prius) or a Wrangler, I'd probably choose the Toyota over the Land Rover and leave the Jeep in the last place, though I do like the early generations.
I remember when I was a teen and saw "She's All That". The protagonist in the film drove a Defender. I fell in love with them and wanted one badly. Then I moved to the Caribbean a few months later and met people with them. It was nothing but horror stories. So I did what any sensible person would do and bought a Jeep Scrambler. That was dumb.
Based on all of my anecdotes from being in the repair industry for years, the only vehicles I will ever own are Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus.
I've known a few people who were obsessed with Land Rovers - often severely dilapidated ex-forces ones. The horror stories almost seemed to be the point - a bonding experience almost...
Car obsession appears to be highly regional. In the Pacific Northwest, it is amusing how many Subaru vehicles you will find. To the point that it is always odd to go back to Atlanta and see how few are there. It would be interesting to see this mapped out.
For Land Rovers, specifically, I definitely recall seeing more when I lived in the south. Though, nowadays I think I notice Kia more. That is almost certainly just noticing more, though?
Same with Colorado. The joke is when you move here you are given a Subaru and Golden Retriever.
I confess that combo would be a positive for me. :D Hands down the best dogs out there.
What region are new Land Rovers popular in? In the southeast I mostly see young guys with an ancient units with 200k+ miles that they bought cheap and refuse the let them die. I rarely see new units on the road.
They’re all over Redmond, WA. Not nearly as common as Teslas (the “Redmond Camry”), but I guarantee I’ll see a late-model LR every time I drive somewhere. There’s probably at least one near my house every day at school drop-off/pickup time.
I honestly don't know, so was surprised to see them listed as a popular choice anywhere and meant my comment just to ack that it is ridiculously regional.
You should visit Iceland, they're everywhere.
Jaguars?
the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built. It has terrible off-road capability even compared to the other (non Defender models like the Range). JLR alienated their entire existing Defender drivers where hardly any of them would buy this new model.
Granted, they also alienated their user base when the traditional TDI was replaced with the TD5 and then more alienation when they introduced the TD4.
But the latest thing (L663) has nothing in common with any of the previous models. (probably due to pedestrian safety laws becoming more strict)
> the new Defender got to be the worst Land Rover ever built
No it isn't. I own a 2022 D90 P300 with 18" wheels, coils, front jump seat, everything. It's been great for ~40,000 miles. I'm constantly on dirt and rocky roads here. It's never let me down.
They're used by tons of people for offroading and modified heavily as well, with companies like Sarek, Lucky8, etc.
The only people who hate on new Defenders are the ones that love the ~25 year old versions with 200,000 miles, tons of rust, a diesel engine that can barely make it to highway speeds, and spends more time in the garage every weekend than "exploring." But hey, they're cooler than us because they work on their cars and have a manual transmission.
Same. My in-laws are Toyota Land Cruiser people, heavily involved with the local clubs. FIL even runs their driver training programs. Was very anti us getting a Defender and said we'd regret it. When we did the training the main problem we had was getting it stuck, because part of the training was learning how to use a winch or straps to get yourself out when you're bogged. We were able to drive out of anything. Now his only criticism is it's not as much fun to drive because it takes less skill (which is exactly what I wanted. I want to get places, not necessarily challenge myself to get there though). It's also a much better finish than the Toyotas. It's not much more expensive than their latest fully optioned Land Cruiser, but everything about the inside of LC feels like it's not been updated since the late 90s. And plenty about it that actually feels cheap (and before anyone weighs in, not in a way that is designed to wear and tear. Just cheap and lazy).
The few annoyances we've had LR have resolved for us at zero cost, even when we were out of warranty.
Yup, the new Defender is amazing. I use mine as a daily driver and love it. You can drive 4,000 miles across country in comfort/luxury and then still have advanced off-roading capabilities in mud, sand, rocks, etc. It's the best of both worlds. All with a warranty.
What's funnier is most of the "new" Defender owners I meet love the old ones (including me, I miss driving manual.) It's the old owners that still seem to have an attitude (calling them "Pretenders", etc.)
The problem I see, is that while the electronic assists and auto gearbox are great in general and win over the older generation everytime in comparisons, having a mild electrical problem or a malfunction in any electronic module would render it basically unusable.
My father told me many stories about the old Land Rovers they had in the military service in Spain. One time, he successfully climbed a hill with two captains after snapping the back axle (the one coming from the transfer case), by locking the differential. These new machines rely too much on electronics without backup, I believe.
Also, and this is fully my opinion, I would never take an automatix off-road.
Let's check back in a few years and see how many of those new Defenders ever make it to 100k miles.
interesting, all I find are harsh critiques.
I'm genuinely interested whether you have some reviews that point to how great the new model performs:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgk0Wl4ap6I - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi1k-zUPFH4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh2AjbzR9TI
Ha ha, I had a Disco. It's the only vehicle I bought an extended warranty on. It's the only extended warranty I ever heard of that was worth buying. For starters: the fuel pump quit a couple blocks away from the dealership.
I live ~90 minutes from Atlanta. Used 'luxury' autos would start showing up on used car lots around Atlanta as soon as their manufacturer's warranty expired.
I had scores of customers who would test drives these vehicles (Usually a LR, a Mini, a V8 Audi, or a V8 BMW) and bring them all the way to me for prepurchase inspections. I would tell them every single time "do not buy this vehicle." Then they would buy it and my employees and I would wager on how long it took the vehicle to be towed in for repairs.
And the type of people who buy used luxury vehicles from lots in Atlanta are also the type of people that cannot afford any repairs. So I ended up with many abandoned LRs, Audis, Minis, and BMWs all over my lot. Then I had to jump through all of the hoops to get the titles and have them sold and towed away.
How mini is a luxury vehicle? They are relatively cheap
They’re extremely temperamental vehicles because they’re not fit for purpose.
The original Range Rover is an upmarket agricultural vehicle, and used the same platform from 1970 until the 2000s. When you actually use them as intended, for off road farm work you realise they’re better off road than they are on road.
I used to drive for five years (2015-2020) a 2009 naturally aspirated petrol Jaguar XF and it had zero issues except a single vacuum hose leak during my 100 000 kilometers (from 120 000 to 220 000) or so. The original rear upper wishbone arms were replaced and no more than expected normal wear & tear brake part replacements were needed. I still sometimes think that I'd like to have one again because in my opinion it was a quite nice and comfortable ride and turned out to be very good value as a used vehicle!
Maybe I had some kind of exception or are there dramatic differences between models and engines?
We had a 2003 Jag S-Type, and it was as reliable as anything else we’ve had. Only had it for three years, bought used in 2006, and didn’t do anything to it. This was back in the days of Ford ownership, though, and it was really a Lincoln Something chassis with a Jag body and badges. Granted, that was a long time ago, but I imagine the underlying chassis has a lot to do with the reliability.
Land Rover is among the most unreliable but apparently they're still a little better than Volkswagen.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-us-vehi...
Anecdata I have a 2017 F-Type R. It's a daily driver and does not get babied. Has been essentially bulletproof, a couple of minor repairs, but nothing different than any other vehicle I have ever owned.
I've thought about replacing it, but why.
My coworker is a big classic Disco fan, has two, and he is constantly fucking with leaks, rust, and electricals. He does all his own work but man, seems like a never ending hobby.
My mechanic friends say the same. The Range Rover is the best looking suv imo and looks over shop time for those that can afford it. That said, no mechanical issues with my 2020 sport.
Because people buy them as a status symbol. Middle aged mum dropping her kids off at school definitely needs a range rover, otherwise what will the other mummies think?
I see Tata/Jaguar and I just remember all the rust.
Rust is all about safety.
It is not some independent company, it is owned by Tata Motors a part of the large Indian Tata Group.
But apparently the company is even profitable, which came as a surprise to me.
Similarly, Italian design house Pininfarina is owned by Mahindra (another Indian auto co that only sells SUVs).
As an Indian auto enthusiast, I’m both happy, but wish more came out of it. (Insert meme of guy poking something with a stick and saying “Go on, do something”)
Mahindra sells lots of tractors. Somehow that both vibes with Lamborghini (who were a tractor company too) — and really doesn't.
I think the Lamborghini that makes tractors has always been a separate legal entity from the one that makes cars (now part of the VW Group) - both founded by the same chap though.
https://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/en-eu/
The back story for Tata buying the group off Ford is interesting.
Tata had approached Ford in 1998 proposing some kind of partnership for their first passenger hatchback.
Apparently Ford officials were arrogant and dismissive so it became a personal matter for Ratan Tata, and when Ford was in trouble, he bought the brand off them.
https://www.financialexpress.com/life/lifestyle-ford-vs-tata...
It's a brand. Similar to Apple. It's just the cost of being seen with that brand and people are OK with that for some reason.
Yes, but Apple generally produces a quality product that doesn't spend ~60% of its life in a repair shop.
That's a feature. It shows you have a lot of money, if you can just light it on fire at the JLR dealer.
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I don't really understand how that's possible.
Here's the press release from the organisation which might be a better link: https://cybermonitoringcentre.com/2025/10/22/cyber-monitorin...
> This estimate is based on the information available as of 17 October and represents scenario-based analysis rather than confirmed operational data
To put it in perspective, that's more than half of the market cap of Mazda, who has several times more market share.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45668372 more
Same thing happened with all companies where the IT/ERP has been outsourced to Tata Consulting Services to India...JLR, Marks and Spencer, Co-Op etc.
British Airways as well. N
> India's Tata Motors
So, all 'tech' is done by TCS?
If you wanted to shut down the line to create maneuvering room as US exports are blocked by tariffs. You could either just do it and take a massive political hit and sour relations with suppliers, or you can get a cheep 1.5 billion pound loan...
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What was the purpose of the hack?
Was it ransom they declined to pay? Did the hackers do it for the lulz? Was a nation-state testing out their capabilities?
Does anyone know how the attack was carried out?
Unless the hack was built on zero-days, I don't like the framing of the hack costing the UK economy billions.
The headline should be "Land Rover's Poor Cybersecurity and ITSEC Practices Cost UK Economy Billions", or something like that.
"Victim's Lack of Martial Arts Training Caused Murder"
It works both ways, "Folks mad at bank for leaving the vault open."
"Victim's Lack of Locks Caused Burglary" "Victim's 3$ Padlock Invited Break In"
There aren’t many details available yet, but you can find some information here: https://treblle.com/blog/jlr-breach-breakdown-analysis
The main issue appears to be that the attack crippled JLR’s internal systems and production databases, preventing them from manufacturing new cars because they cannot properly track parts or generate serial numbers.
I’ve also read reports claiming that around 40k vehicles have already been built but are now essentially “ghost cars” since they aren’t registered in the system.
Imagine what would happen if JLR had to issue a safety recall without knowing which components are installed in which vehicles.
Did they not have a disaster recovery plan in place? It's not amazing that they got hit with a breach. It's amazing that they couldn't just "nuke from orbit" and start with a day-old snapshot (yeah, that's massively oversimplified, but still, it shouldn't take months and $billions$ to recover either).
And that 40k ghost car doesn't sound realistic. LR only makes ~400k vehicles/year. That 10% of their annual output got "lost" beggars belief.
to paraphrase mike tyson, everybody has a disaster recovery plan until they get punched in the face
They did have a good plan - which was to have the government bail them out. If you have that plan, there is no need to have any other plan.
From their point of view it was a good plan - given JLR is owned by Tata who had the resources to bail them out and didn't they (Tata) likely see it as a good deal.
Late stage capitalism in action as usual - privatise the profits, socialise the costs.
Technically what the government did was underwrite the loan but again - why is the government underwriting the loan when Tata has the resources to do that (13bn net income at last FY).
some info here https://www.cyfirma.com/research/investigation-report-on-jag...
> The breach was enabled through stolen Jira credentials harvested via Infostealer malware, a known hallmark of HELLCAT’s operations. The exposed data includes development logs, tracking information, source code, and a large employee dataset with usernames, email addresses, display names, and time zones. The presence of verified employee information from JLR’s global workforce raises significant concerns about identity theft and targeted phishing campaigns.
then
> the JLR breach escalated when a second threat actor, “APTS,” appeared on DarkForums on March 14, 2025. APTS claimed to have exploited Infostealer credentials dating back to 2021, belonging to an employee who held third-party access to JLR’s Jira server. Using these compromised credentials, the actor gained entry and shared a screenshot of a Jira dashboard as proof. APTS also leaked an additional tranche of sensitive data, estimated at around 350 GB, which contained information not included in Rey’s original dump, further amplifying the scale and severity of the breach.
I'm surprised this wasn't bigger news? This is the first mention but $2.5B should have been quite the headline around the world
> In 2023, as part of an effort to "accelerate digital transformation across its business", JLR signed a five-year, £800m deal with corporate stablemate Tata Consultancy Services to provide cybersecurity and a range of other IT services.
I found this hilarious in another article. Lol so you sold the company to India Tata Motors and then you went full incest and had your IT done by Tata Consultancy Services.