I agree it sucks this is necessary but given the situation in that area I'm not sure it's fair to just blame the retailers. It's either increasingly invasive things like this or locking most products away behind glass reducing convenience and increasing wait times - or raising prices even further to pay for more loss prevention staff (at SF wages on top of already pricey SF lease costs).
Many other retailers have already relocated elsewhere, so at least Safeway is still there trying to provide people with a local option.
Vote with your feet: If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
When I lived in SF, I stopped using the automated checkouts because they were too sensitive and glitchy; if you breathed on the scale they'd require a clerk to reset.
There's a target store I've gone to that is sort of taken over by homeless. They are all over outside. They walk in with their bicycles. Target hasn't really done anything. It is kind of weird to shop there.
That said, I wonder what happens at safeway during a fire or shooter.
If the graphic on the machine is anything to go by, you just push on the barrier and it will swing out. If you didnt know, this is the same with all the regular motorized sliding doors, too.
> That said, I wonder what happens at safeway during a fire or shooter.
During a fire, the gate controller will have a fire alarm input on the terminal block wired to an output from the fire alarm system that will open the gate if the fire alarm system activates. All automatic doors/gates/card access doors and fire alarm systems work the same way, fail open on fire alarm signal.
If there was a duress button system at Safeway, a signal from that could be used to automatically open gates and doors as well during an active shooter incident, but afaik it’s not mandated by code like fire alarm door and gate releases are.
Some automatic sliding double doors actually are able to be pushed open, there’s a hidden hinge in the top that allows it to open up even if the double doors are closed.
At least in most jurisdictions, the egress to a gathering area can __never__ be blocked, there is some provisions for delay on emergency exits, but those require NRTL certification, and are actually usually mechanical.
You might be able to lock it down during periods of limited occupancy, and you can rig it to an annoying alarm, and maybe try to identify the person, and ban them from future. It is possible to get variances for this, but you usually need to either be a medical or penal facility.
Thanks for clarifying the finer points, my exposure to these systems is sending people to wire them up (mostly electrical but sometimes the control wiring) and not so much on the code side.
I looked up a wiring diagram for a similar gate and saw it had a fire alarm input so I assumed the AHJ in this case approved it based on the ability for the gate to open when an alarm condition is detected. That being said, it seems like a danger to me.
A regional hardware store chain has turnstiles at the entry points and swing gates at exits, which seems much safer for access control in a big box store.
I used to live near this store. It was not a pleasant experience to shop there unless you enjoy watching drug addicts threaten security for stopping them for stealing or having them cut in line in front of you.
Why do people in SF just put up with this? If it were anywhere else in the country I’d think mayor would be ousted by someone who’d clean up the city.
And I’m not talking about homelessness in general. New York has plenty but at least it’s somewhat under control. No companies are leaving or putting these sorts of barriers in place because of it.
I live in an affulent area of one of the wealthiest counties in the country. The homeless rate and crime rate are significantly lower than the national average for the county as a whole and the numbers for my area of the county are significantly lower than the county as a whole. I went into a local grocery store on Monday and they had installed these gates at some point over the last week.
I agree it sucks this is necessary but given the situation in that area I'm not sure it's fair to just blame the retailers. It's either increasingly invasive things like this or locking most products away behind glass reducing convenience and increasing wait times - or raising prices even further to pay for more loss prevention staff (at SF wages on top of already pricey SF lease costs).
Many other retailers have already relocated elsewhere, so at least Safeway is still there trying to provide people with a local option.
Vote with your feet: If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
When I lived in SF, I stopped using the automated checkouts because they were too sensitive and glitchy; if you breathed on the scale they'd require a clerk to reset.
Must be an option they only opt to turn on in higher theft zip codes.
And I say that as someone who lives in the kind of city people associate with post-industrial decay.
Pro tip, you can literally just push the gates open and walk out.
You can also tailgate people, or just ask staff nicely.
Or for style points you can hop it.
I'm fairly sure I'd get negative 1000 style points if I attempted such ;)
There's a target store I've gone to that is sort of taken over by homeless. They are all over outside. They walk in with their bicycles. Target hasn't really done anything. It is kind of weird to shop there.
That said, I wonder what happens at safeway during a fire or shooter.
If the graphic on the machine is anything to go by, you just push on the barrier and it will swing out. If you didnt know, this is the same with all the regular motorized sliding doors, too.
> That said, I wonder what happens at safeway during a fire or shooter.
During a fire, the gate controller will have a fire alarm input on the terminal block wired to an output from the fire alarm system that will open the gate if the fire alarm system activates. All automatic doors/gates/card access doors and fire alarm systems work the same way, fail open on fire alarm signal.
If there was a duress button system at Safeway, a signal from that could be used to automatically open gates and doors as well during an active shooter incident, but afaik it’s not mandated by code like fire alarm door and gate releases are.
Some automatic sliding double doors actually are able to be pushed open, there’s a hidden hinge in the top that allows it to open up even if the double doors are closed.
At least in most jurisdictions, the egress to a gathering area can __never__ be blocked, there is some provisions for delay on emergency exits, but those require NRTL certification, and are actually usually mechanical.
You might be able to lock it down during periods of limited occupancy, and you can rig it to an annoying alarm, and maybe try to identify the person, and ban them from future. It is possible to get variances for this, but you usually need to either be a medical or penal facility.
Thanks for clarifying the finer points, my exposure to these systems is sending people to wire them up (mostly electrical but sometimes the control wiring) and not so much on the code side.
I looked up a wiring diagram for a similar gate and saw it had a fire alarm input so I assumed the AHJ in this case approved it based on the ability for the gate to open when an alarm condition is detected. That being said, it seems like a danger to me.
A regional hardware store chain has turnstiles at the entry points and swing gates at exits, which seems much safer for access control in a big box store.
This is the default in some countries, e.g. Italy in major cities :D
I used to live near this store. It was not a pleasant experience to shop there unless you enjoy watching drug addicts threaten security for stopping them for stealing or having them cut in line in front of you.
Why do people in SF just put up with this? If it were anywhere else in the country I’d think mayor would be ousted by someone who’d clean up the city.
And I’m not talking about homelessness in general. New York has plenty but at least it’s somewhat under control. No companies are leaving or putting these sorts of barriers in place because of it.
I live in an affulent area of one of the wealthiest counties in the country. The homeless rate and crime rate are significantly lower than the national average for the county as a whole and the numbers for my area of the county are significantly lower than the county as a whole. I went into a local grocery store on Monday and they had installed these gates at some point over the last week.