While I'm definitely going to give this a chance, I'm not going to get my hopes up. Firefly was a perfect storm--it was the combination of Wheadon, Tim Minear, and the entire cast. Personally, I think the writing is what made Firefly work, and without Wheadon or Minear, I don't know if it will rise to the same level.
Moreover, I felt Serenity was a good conclusion to the original mythology (River, Alliance, etc.). If they introduce a new mythology arc, it might not quite have the same resonance. And if they just do a bunch of monster-of-the-week episodes, it won't be enough.
But I don't want to criticize what I haven't seen. They know way better than I do, and even if the only result of this is that the original actors have a lot of fun, then I'm all for it. They deserve to take a shot.
If you didn't like Lower Decks you probably really never liked Star Trek. Strange New Worlds and Starfleet Academy also happen to be better than... a significant portion of the classics (DS9 will never be surpassed and that's okay).
Lower Decks in traditional Trek fashion had a rough season 1 but was stronger later. SNW an Academy had probably the best two season 1 performances of any Star Trek shows ever produced. There's one gripe about Academy that you can grant: The theme song sucks. Other than that, perfect.
There's some legitimately challenging writing decisions in Discovery and Picard, but if the three shows you mentioned ruin Trek for you, you never got it in the first place.
I couldn't get into Lower Decks. And I love Star Trek, so maybe you don't understand the full range of Star Trek fans. I personally love NG but couldn't get into DS9 or Voyager. I disliked Discovery but I love SNW. There are all kinds of Star Trek fans.
Agree, Whedon's script is essential to the popularity. I'd love it happen tho if they can do a good enough job. As well as River etc, I'd like to Shepherd Books back story.
Lets be real - Firefly was very good. But the reason it holds "magic" status as far as series goes is mostly because of its rarity, and the final movie where a major likable character was killed off, with everyone wishing for a sequel.
Its same with anything really - car enthusiasts obsess over limited runs of older cars because they are rare, not because they are good, and people were lining up at McDonalds when they re-released Szechuan sauce (which is literally soy sauce and ketchup).
If they would have done Season 2,3, and so on, it wouldn't be held in such a high regard as it is now.
> Lets be real - Firefly was very good. But the reason it holds "magic" status as far as series goes is mostly because of its rarity, and the final movie where a major likable character was killed off, with everyone wishing for a sequel.
Strongly disagree. The Firefly series was always exceptional. I watched it on DVD around the time it came out (maybe just after it was cancelled) and waited for the movie. The movie was actually a net negative, in my opinion, for killing off Wash (Tudyk), who was essential to the chemistry they had going.
I actually think the movie killing him off (and to a lesser extent, killing Book) hurt the momentum for further movies or other follow-ups.
> If they would have done Season 2,3, and so on, it wouldn't be held in such a high regard as it is now.
It's always possible that it could have gone off the rails. But the original Star Trek only ran for three seasons and spawned countless other shows and movies. I think if it had gone for two more seasons with the same cast, crew it, and general quality level it could potentially have been another Star Trek.
I agree with you. Star Trek TOS only had two good seasons. Season 3 was widely panned. And it still spawned a massive franchise.
Plus there have been dozens of one-series sci-fi shows (Almost Human, Terra Nova, Space:Above and Beyond, etc.) and none have the same pull as Firefly.
I never got the impression there was much momentum for any more sequels anyway, Serenity felt like the bone they were willing to throw. This was a time before show revivals (rather than remakes/reboots e.g. BSG) were common, it was very surprising when they did it for Family Guy.
Loved the show, I have no expectations for this. It's just too easy to not be "right" for all sorts of incompatible different definitions of "right".
But, the animated series a good idea and smart.
First, it lets Nathan and Morena participate considering they're pretty busy with their prime time series.
Second, there's no reason to "jump ahead 20 years". They can pick right up from where they left off after they figure out how to dig Wash out of the ground. The animated characters don't have to age. They can do a prequel, they have a lot of flexibility which helps to not pigeon hole it.
And, ideally, the animated series can be less expensive, making it perhaps more of a chance for success and continuing (I have no idea how much modern animated show development costs compared to sets and CGI etc.).
I have not seen it, but I understand that The Clone Wars is a pretty successful series, so maybe that's an inspiration.
If there’s any chance at success, animated is probably it. Alternatively they could remake the show with a different cast portraying some other crew with a whole new storyline. Of course that’s not a reboot but it could capture the same kind of magic the first did with the right writers and cast. It could even be set before, after, or contemporaneously with the original. It would be a big expensive gamble though.
> I have no idea how much modern animated show development costs
Animation costs are all over the place. It can be dirty cheap, it can be more expensive than a highly-produced live action. You can notice the difference, but it's not what actually matters for the show's success.
ST:TAS had some surprisingly good scripts for something that was somewhat a 70’s kids cartoon. Very much enjoyed how animation allowed them to run wild where practical effects wouldn’t have been possible (for better or worse at times, lol).
I adored Lower Decks. It was the right way to approach fan service for a franchise as I hate seeing fan service awkwardly ham fisted into every corner of nutrek. Some of the later seasons were a bit awkward, or rushed?, but overall I adored it. Terrific character development and overall really told that story of that period between being a bunch of green academy grads and being adaptable, competent professionals.
My wife used to fall for every Firefly season 2 hoax on social media in the past because she wished it to be true. It was very funny when I could come to her to announce there will be a season 2.
Mixed feelings about it being animated. The older I become, the more I have trouble relating to painted characters, no real clue why, so I couldn't even enjoy things I should have enjoyed like Arcane.
Also, of course, no Shepherd Book :-(
Anyway, I hope I'll like it. Really loved season 1.
I agree with most of the other comments so far, the "magic" of the show is going to be hard to replicate.
My bull case for this is that Nathan Fillion and crew have had 20 years of exposure to this fact and likely know what they're getting into and how to do it right. The only question is if they'll be able to execute. I'm excited!
Say what you will about Joss Whedon, but his use of a colorful
character palette & quirky, punchy style of dialog have gone from niche to mainstream in the 30+ years since Buffy. Mostly thanks to Whedon’s and his imitators’ escalating success with that formula: The Avengers, for example, took Marvel from a series of above-average superhero hits to total cultural dominance.
There’s plenty of writing talent out there that grew up wanting to emulate Buffy and Firefly, so if hearts and budgets are in the right place, recapturing that part of the show should be eminently feasible.
I'm a little nervous about this affecting it negatively. Back when Buffy and Firefly were on the air, they felt so unique due to the dialogue style. But now that'll just seem like every single generic superhero movie. Hopefully it can buck that feeling somehow.
I feel like Buffy doesn’t work so well in the modern era, unlike animated firefly? Not entirely sure why though. Maybe part of the charm of Buffy is the setting?
The announcement on instagram is here in case anyone wants to see it directly. Pretty well done. Nathan did a bunch of teasers with the other stars earlier. Kinda funny and goofy.
I am... cautiously optimistic without Whedon being involved. But also very curious how this will work since it doesn't seem like it's a reboot, unless I missed something.
Tara Butters from Dollhouse being involved makes me a feel a bit better, since I love Dollhouse (actually rewatching it right now). Now I can only hope this actually succeeds and maybe Dollhouse can get similar treatment.
I am sure some will be upset that it's animated, but if that is what it takes (and it turns out good) I'm fine with it.
Okay so a little bit of out of universe trivia on Dollhouse: It was planned for 5 seasons. With the risk of cancellation, the second season and the two Epitaph episodes were a severely compressed telling of 4 seasons of plans. And, personally I think it worked well. Something similar happened to Babylon 5, Manifest, Jericho (IIRC), Firefly (Serenity was the original ending that would have played out over multiple seasons), and the Escaflowne anime: the main plots towards the end got compressed to create a faster pace at the climax while ensuring the story could be finished (though I wasn't a fan of how Manifest ended).
My concern about original writers being involved in reboots is if they want to fill out the story they couldn't tell the first time around and end up with a more standard pacing that's less exciting, and end up getting cancelled before finishing. Then we end up with things like Tru Calling and Dark Matter, which had planned plots they couldn't finish.
They’re just going to lean hard into women protagonists and make it over the top feminist content that 99% of men won’t enjoy, kind of like what they did with the new Star Wars. It’s basically chixsploitation films with no gravitas that get forgotten a few months after they are released.
The original firefly played their female characters so well.
It is a little weird that these two events were so close to each other.
My tinfoil hat tells me Someone Important didn't want two shows from the same creator resurrected simultaneously and potentially competing with each other, but I put the hat back in the cupboard because even if it were true, that person's opinion would be stupid. Coincidences happen, and people can be fans of more than one thing.
Personally, I have high hopes for this Firefly venture. And for those who were hoping for a live action continuation, that's still not off the table! This may be how we get there.
I am honestly baffled by how much people love firefly. I don't get it. It's a slightly campy western-style scifi. It's not bad but it's not 'still talking about it for the next few decades' material IMO. Theres a zillion littl scifi channel series with essentially the same quality as far as I can figure.
Do you have some examples? Because honestly I put Firefly very high on my list of shows I like.
The setting is great, the writing is top-notch, and the acting is wonderful. The characters have great chemistry. It's funny.
The general universe is well done too. It lacks endless implausible human-shaped aliens and is light on space magic, which is nice. Overall it feels lived-in and there is some interesting history.
Honestly it's hard to think of another space-western style series that I'd rate so highly. I guess parts of the Mandalorian fit the bill, but I wouldn't rank it up there with Firefly.
It's because it was killed before it's time, and there was a known plan for the overall story arc (which was at least semi-satisfied by Serenity). It had developed a fan base that were hungry for more, and then it was cancelled, leaving a great thirst.
Had it lasted three seasons (or even only two), and still been 'cancelled before it's time' it would have faded from memory more quickly because the itch would have been scratched more satisfyingly.
It was good for it's time, and since it was cancelled it's locked within that time. How it translates against modern television is yet to be seen. However, the popularity of The Mandalorian means there is still a market for the Sci-fi Western.
(I liked parts of The Mandalorian, but it went downhill pretty fast in terms of ... everything. I like the sci-fi western thing - it's not serious, but it can touch serious-ness. The Expanse was serious, and touched some Western/Frontier sci-fi)
Before SyFy self-imploded a decade ago it had multiple “ragtag rogues adventure across a sci-fi setting with frontier elements” - Dark Matter, Killjoys, Defiance. Feels like the subgenre Firefly occupied is well-settled by now.
Not for me. It scratches a very specific itch that hasn’t been replicated since. Which is probably a good indication it won’t work for this show either.
Firefly has memorable characters, great acting/actors, and good chemistry and good writing. And it's especially memorable because the show got fucked over so people can imagine a lot more greatness than was delivered.
Good drama, good humor, good characters, and a very cozy feel in those quiet moments on the ship between things.
In contrast to the sibling comment, I fell in love with the series before I knew it had been canceled. When I finished season 1, I immediately went in search of season 2. When I couldn’t find it, I went to find out when it was going to be released. Discovering what had happened to it was tremendously disappointing.
A cartoon is cool but a continuation using original actors where possible and recast versions WITH ai video generation is something that can also happen in the future too.
In theory it can be close to the real actors continuing it in early 2000s
While I'm definitely going to give this a chance, I'm not going to get my hopes up. Firefly was a perfect storm--it was the combination of Wheadon, Tim Minear, and the entire cast. Personally, I think the writing is what made Firefly work, and without Wheadon or Minear, I don't know if it will rise to the same level.
Moreover, I felt Serenity was a good conclusion to the original mythology (River, Alliance, etc.). If they introduce a new mythology arc, it might not quite have the same resonance. And if they just do a bunch of monster-of-the-week episodes, it won't be enough.
But I don't want to criticize what I haven't seen. They know way better than I do, and even if the only result of this is that the original actors have a lot of fun, then I'm all for it. They deserve to take a shot.
The benefit of it being animated is that if it sucks we can just ignore it, if it’s good we can embrace it.
If they went the full live-action route there’s a higher chance it tarnishes the legacy of the original.
I didn’t like Star Trek: Lower Decks but it didn’t make me feel like Trek has been ruined like Strange New Worlds and Starfleet Academy did.
If you didn't like Lower Decks you probably really never liked Star Trek. Strange New Worlds and Starfleet Academy also happen to be better than... a significant portion of the classics (DS9 will never be surpassed and that's okay).
Lower Decks in traditional Trek fashion had a rough season 1 but was stronger later. SNW an Academy had probably the best two season 1 performances of any Star Trek shows ever produced. There's one gripe about Academy that you can grant: The theme song sucks. Other than that, perfect.
There's some legitimately challenging writing decisions in Discovery and Picard, but if the three shows you mentioned ruin Trek for you, you never got it in the first place.
I love Lower Decks but it’s not like TOS at all. It’s more like a love letter to TOS. Strange New Worlds is VERY much like TOS.
I couldn't get into Lower Decks. And I love Star Trek, so maybe you don't understand the full range of Star Trek fans. I personally love NG but couldn't get into DS9 or Voyager. I disliked Discovery but I love SNW. There are all kinds of Star Trek fans.
Agree, Whedon's script is essential to the popularity. I'd love it happen tho if they can do a good enough job. As well as River etc, I'd like to Shepherd Books back story.
Lets be real - Firefly was very good. But the reason it holds "magic" status as far as series goes is mostly because of its rarity, and the final movie where a major likable character was killed off, with everyone wishing for a sequel.
Its same with anything really - car enthusiasts obsess over limited runs of older cars because they are rare, not because they are good, and people were lining up at McDonalds when they re-released Szechuan sauce (which is literally soy sauce and ketchup).
If they would have done Season 2,3, and so on, it wouldn't be held in such a high regard as it is now.
> Lets be real - Firefly was very good. But the reason it holds "magic" status as far as series goes is mostly because of its rarity, and the final movie where a major likable character was killed off, with everyone wishing for a sequel.
Strongly disagree. The Firefly series was always exceptional. I watched it on DVD around the time it came out (maybe just after it was cancelled) and waited for the movie. The movie was actually a net negative, in my opinion, for killing off Wash (Tudyk), who was essential to the chemistry they had going.
I actually think the movie killing him off (and to a lesser extent, killing Book) hurt the momentum for further movies or other follow-ups.
> If they would have done Season 2,3, and so on, it wouldn't be held in such a high regard as it is now.
It's always possible that it could have gone off the rails. But the original Star Trek only ran for three seasons and spawned countless other shows and movies. I think if it had gone for two more seasons with the same cast, crew it, and general quality level it could potentially have been another Star Trek.
I agree with you. Star Trek TOS only had two good seasons. Season 3 was widely panned. And it still spawned a massive franchise.
Plus there have been dozens of one-series sci-fi shows (Almost Human, Terra Nova, Space:Above and Beyond, etc.) and none have the same pull as Firefly.
I never got the impression there was much momentum for any more sequels anyway, Serenity felt like the bone they were willing to throw. This was a time before show revivals (rather than remakes/reboots e.g. BSG) were common, it was very surprising when they did it for Family Guy.
Loved the show, I have no expectations for this. It's just too easy to not be "right" for all sorts of incompatible different definitions of "right".
But, the animated series a good idea and smart.
First, it lets Nathan and Morena participate considering they're pretty busy with their prime time series.
Second, there's no reason to "jump ahead 20 years". They can pick right up from where they left off after they figure out how to dig Wash out of the ground. The animated characters don't have to age. They can do a prequel, they have a lot of flexibility which helps to not pigeon hole it.
And, ideally, the animated series can be less expensive, making it perhaps more of a chance for success and continuing (I have no idea how much modern animated show development costs compared to sets and CGI etc.).
I have not seen it, but I understand that The Clone Wars is a pretty successful series, so maybe that's an inspiration.
If there’s any chance at success, animated is probably it. Alternatively they could remake the show with a different cast portraying some other crew with a whole new storyline. Of course that’s not a reboot but it could capture the same kind of magic the first did with the right writers and cast. It could even be set before, after, or contemporaneously with the original. It would be a big expensive gamble though.
Yeah, I don't think it would ever work with a different cast.
>They can pick right up from where they left off after they figure out how to dig Wash out of the ground.
The animated show is set between the original series and the movie, presumably because of Wash's character.
It’s sad that Ron Glass is no longer with us and can’t reprise his role as Shepherd Book.
I liked him in Barney Miller, so he and I go way back...
Oh man, Barney Miller, Night Court, WKRP,... golden age of US TV dramedy.
I recently tried watching the new Night Court reboot.
Didn’t really interest me.
> figure out how to dig Wash out of the ground
My understanding is that it fits between the series and the movie, so there will be no need to rename the land known as His Grave.
> I have no idea how much modern animated show development costs
Animation costs are all over the place. It can be dirty cheap, it can be more expensive than a highly-produced live action. You can notice the difference, but it's not what actually matters for the show's success.
Star Trek animated is pretty good and so is Lower Decks.
I usually don't like cartoons but I'm hopeful.
ST:TAS had some surprisingly good scripts for something that was somewhat a 70’s kids cartoon. Very much enjoyed how animation allowed them to run wild where practical effects wouldn’t have been possible (for better or worse at times, lol).
I adored Lower Decks. It was the right way to approach fan service for a franchise as I hate seeing fan service awkwardly ham fisted into every corner of nutrek. Some of the later seasons were a bit awkward, or rushed?, but overall I adored it. Terrific character development and overall really told that story of that period between being a bunch of green academy grads and being adaptable, competent professionals.
My wife used to fall for every Firefly season 2 hoax on social media in the past because she wished it to be true. It was very funny when I could come to her to announce there will be a season 2.
Mixed feelings about it being animated. The older I become, the more I have trouble relating to painted characters, no real clue why, so I couldn't even enjoy things I should have enjoyed like Arcane.
Also, of course, no Shepherd Book :-(
Anyway, I hope I'll like it. Really loved season 1.
They can probably get a Shepherd Book voice actor much easier than a Ron Glass doppelgänger for a live show.
With AI they good probably replicate it perfectly. For good and bad.
Just bad imo. No reason to do that when there are many talented voice actors out there who will do just fine.
I just call it "The Season" because there was no Season II.
I agree with most of the other comments so far, the "magic" of the show is going to be hard to replicate.
My bull case for this is that Nathan Fillion and crew have had 20 years of exposure to this fact and likely know what they're getting into and how to do it right. The only question is if they'll be able to execute. I'm excited!
Say what you will about Joss Whedon, but his use of a colorful character palette & quirky, punchy style of dialog have gone from niche to mainstream in the 30+ years since Buffy. Mostly thanks to Whedon’s and his imitators’ escalating success with that formula: The Avengers, for example, took Marvel from a series of above-average superhero hits to total cultural dominance.
There’s plenty of writing talent out there that grew up wanting to emulate Buffy and Firefly, so if hearts and budgets are in the right place, recapturing that part of the show should be eminently feasible.
Some of the skill (imo) was creating characters who naturally set up opportunities for those dialog trees. That at least is already done for firefly
I'm a little nervous about this affecting it negatively. Back when Buffy and Firefly were on the air, they felt so unique due to the dialogue style. But now that'll just seem like every single generic superhero movie. Hopefully it can buck that feeling somehow.
The Buffy revival was just canned this weekend, so I wouldn't get too optimistic here.
I feel like Buffy doesn’t work so well in the modern era, unlike animated firefly? Not entirely sure why though. Maybe part of the charm of Buffy is the setting?
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one. ~ Captain Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds
The announcement on instagram is here in case anyone wants to see it directly. Pretty well done. Nathan did a bunch of teasers with the other stars earlier. Kinda funny and goofy.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DV6Js56jT3F/
♫♪♪ Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me ♫♪♪
I am... cautiously optimistic without Whedon being involved. But also very curious how this will work since it doesn't seem like it's a reboot, unless I missed something.
Tara Butters from Dollhouse being involved makes me a feel a bit better, since I love Dollhouse (actually rewatching it right now). Now I can only hope this actually succeeds and maybe Dollhouse can get similar treatment.
I am sure some will be upset that it's animated, but if that is what it takes (and it turns out good) I'm fine with it.
Okay so a little bit of out of universe trivia on Dollhouse: It was planned for 5 seasons. With the risk of cancellation, the second season and the two Epitaph episodes were a severely compressed telling of 4 seasons of plans. And, personally I think it worked well. Something similar happened to Babylon 5, Manifest, Jericho (IIRC), Firefly (Serenity was the original ending that would have played out over multiple seasons), and the Escaflowne anime: the main plots towards the end got compressed to create a faster pace at the climax while ensuring the story could be finished (though I wasn't a fan of how Manifest ended).
My concern about original writers being involved in reboots is if they want to fill out the story they couldn't tell the first time around and end up with a more standard pacing that's less exciting, and end up getting cancelled before finishing. Then we end up with things like Tru Calling and Dark Matter, which had planned plots they couldn't finish.
Oh wow, I really enjoyed Dollhouse but I didn't know that! I was always confused why Season 2's plot went by so quickly. Thanks.
They’re just going to lean hard into women protagonists and make it over the top feminist content that 99% of men won’t enjoy, kind of like what they did with the new Star Wars. It’s basically chixsploitation films with no gravitas that get forgotten a few months after they are released.
The original firefly played their female characters so well.
Shiny.
Interesting timing, considering that the Buffy the Vampire Slayer reboot was canceled by Hulu yesterday.
It is a little weird that these two events were so close to each other.
My tinfoil hat tells me Someone Important didn't want two shows from the same creator resurrected simultaneously and potentially competing with each other, but I put the hat back in the cupboard because even if it were true, that person's opinion would be stupid. Coincidences happen, and people can be fans of more than one thing.
Personally, I have high hopes for this Firefly venture. And for those who were hoping for a live action continuation, that's still not off the table! This may be how we get there.
https://archive.ph/KTIGX
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I am honestly baffled by how much people love firefly. I don't get it. It's a slightly campy western-style scifi. It's not bad but it's not 'still talking about it for the next few decades' material IMO. Theres a zillion littl scifi channel series with essentially the same quality as far as I can figure.
Do you have some examples? Because honestly I put Firefly very high on my list of shows I like.
The setting is great, the writing is top-notch, and the acting is wonderful. The characters have great chemistry. It's funny.
The general universe is well done too. It lacks endless implausible human-shaped aliens and is light on space magic, which is nice. Overall it feels lived-in and there is some interesting history.
Honestly it's hard to think of another space-western style series that I'd rate so highly. I guess parts of the Mandalorian fit the bill, but I wouldn't rank it up there with Firefly.
It's because it was killed before it's time, and there was a known plan for the overall story arc (which was at least semi-satisfied by Serenity). It had developed a fan base that were hungry for more, and then it was cancelled, leaving a great thirst.
Had it lasted three seasons (or even only two), and still been 'cancelled before it's time' it would have faded from memory more quickly because the itch would have been scratched more satisfyingly.
It was good for it's time, and since it was cancelled it's locked within that time. How it translates against modern television is yet to be seen. However, the popularity of The Mandalorian means there is still a market for the Sci-fi Western.
(I liked parts of The Mandalorian, but it went downhill pretty fast in terms of ... everything. I like the sci-fi western thing - it's not serious, but it can touch serious-ness. The Expanse was serious, and touched some Western/Frontier sci-fi)
Before SyFy self-imploded a decade ago it had multiple “ragtag rogues adventure across a sci-fi setting with frontier elements” - Dark Matter, Killjoys, Defiance. Feels like the subgenre Firefly occupied is well-settled by now.
like which ones, let's get concrete here
Not for me. It scratches a very specific itch that hasn’t been replicated since. Which is probably a good indication it won’t work for this show either.
Like what? Maybe I'm missing some great shows.
Firefly has memorable characters, great acting/actors, and good chemistry and good writing. And it's especially memorable because the show got fucked over so people can imagine a lot more greatness than was delivered.
What are the sci-fi channel series?
Good drama, good humor, good characters, and a very cozy feel in those quiet moments on the ship between things.
In contrast to the sibling comment, I fell in love with the series before I knew it had been canceled. When I finished season 1, I immediately went in search of season 2. When I couldn’t find it, I went to find out when it was going to be released. Discovering what had happened to it was tremendously disappointing.
A cartoon is cool but a continuation using original actors where possible and recast versions WITH ai video generation is something that can also happen in the future too.
In theory it can be close to the real actors continuing it in early 2000s
> recast versions WITH ai video generation
Eww, absolutely not.
Honestly, I think in the next year or two, you'll be able to feed an LLM the animated show and have it convert it to pseudo-liveaction.
For better or worse.