context: i teach at a local college in IT. some of my classes are part of the cybersec curriculum.
as far as i have been able track (linkedin, email, etc.) roughly 3/4 of the previous graduating cybersec class has been unable to get a job in cybersec. probably 1/2 of those are struggling to find even basic sysadmin or password-resetter positions.
this is significantly different than when the program started (around 2015 or so), where roughly 4/5 of the graduating class had jobs (specifically in cybersec) lined up at the time of graduation.
cybersec is a bit of an outlier, but i see a similar trend with the networking program and game design program as well (the only other 2 i have first-hand knowledge of)
its rough out there! (i am recommending to my kids that they avoid post-secondary)
Game design also seems like it'd be an outlier fwiw, since it's a niche that people desperately want to get into if they've participated in contemporary entertainment culture in the last 2 decades, and that schools are happy to take their money for, but realistically the competition's always seemed high. Networking is a pretty boring unglamorous pursuit though that's very behind the scenes as well as being difficult and niche.
None of the top cyber security talent I've worked with went to school for it, and I have been underwhelmed by what I see coming from college programs. These kinds of credentials themselves are not a signal of quality to me.
Goodwill with hiring managers is good. But in a down economy it'd be helpful to boost your reputation more broadly.
If I were running your college's program, I would invest in a presence at Defcon. If just one your students could use their skills to uncover and present something genuinely interesting, it would be worth covering their airfare and accommodations just to get your logo on the screen. If you could do this every other year, your program would have an unparalleled brand.
>Goodwill with hiring managers is good. But in a down economy it'd be helpful to boost your reputation more broadly.
part of our success over the years has been due to our reputation building, presence at local/state/national conventions, etc. that is exactly why the sudden downturn in hiring has been eye-opening.
> some of my classes are part of the cybersec curriculum
> as far as i have been able track (linkedin, email, etc.) roughly 3/4 of the previous graduating cybersec class has been unable to get a job in cybersec. probably 1/2 of those are struggling to find even basic sysadmin or password-resetter positions.
What is the curriculum that is being taught in your program?
If it's "how to be a Splunk or Crowdstrike" admin or "how to be an L1 SOC" I don't think that is a hireable skill at this point.
What is the curriculum though - you don't need to send me the name of the institution but I've been a hiring manager in the space and a PM for some of the larger companies and I haven't been impressed by "Cybersecurity" bootcamps or degree holders unless they also had a tangible track record (eg. HackerOne).
I feel a lot of hiring reflects that as well now - if I want a SWE to build a runtime agent I'm better off hiring a new grad from UC Berkeley who took CS162 and CS161 versus someone who took a summary course but doesn't understand how ld_preload works. Similarly, if I was doing AppSec for WebApps/OWASP I'd rather hire someone with an actual bounty track record on HackerOne instead of a bootcamp grad and potentially even a degree holder.
My best hiring pipeline has been Vets who were in a Cyber MOS with a couple years of hands-on experience and then did a WGU type program, but the WGU program was just a checkbox for HR.
> I am recommending to my kids that they avoid post-secondary
I think that's a mistake, unless you mean "and go into debt for college". Working with many people over the years the educated (in STEM) are noticably better quality than high school or bootcamp folks on average. Work ethic or amount of code written is not an issue, just the general thinking through of problems.
well, yes. i am not rich. they would need to take loans. and from what i am seeing, they would likely end up working in the exact same position as the 19 year old who decided to go directly into the workforce.
i will, of course, support them no matter what they decide. but when we discuss options, i emphasize skilled trades, or working for a few years before committing themselves to tens of thousands of dollars of debt to very possibly end up in a position that doesnt require the schooling.
For what is worth. I am planning to save about 60k for each and encourage them to go to the State university that is 20minutes from home. Hopefully they can go to college and stay debt free. But it will be really up to them.
I don't mean to argue but living at home and community college + state school is a viable option. I was not wealthy but able to not borrow for school this way. Good luck
i am just not recommending it as a first choice to my kids. i remember how it was presented to me: "go to post-secondary or be stuck burger-flipping forever."
this is also just one random teacher's opinion, where 99.9% of the context (e.g. academic history of my kids, aptitude, my experiences as a teacher, my location, etc.) are missing. so, mountain of salt and all that. my recommendation is specifically a recommendation for my kids.
A major issue I feel has been a proliferation of lower quality programs charging a premium price as well.
It's become harder to vet undergrads in the US for specific subfields because of either a lack of preparation or subpar career services.
Additonally, at least in CS/CE the number of candidates have skyrocketed, but the reality is most companies can limit new grad hiring to 10-20 target programs nationally and 2-3 local programs and get the talent pipeline they need.
It's ridiculously funny that if I were to graduate from HBS today with an MBA, I would have a lower chance of securing my first job as an analyst at a private equity fund, as a fresh graduate. The numbers for graduates are even more terrible. Yes, I did the math and they are abysmal today.
I didn't read the article (paywalled), but did the headline is "young graduates face the grimmest job market in years". Did they address how many years? I've seen now compared to 2000 & 2008, which were bad, but that we bounced back from. Is it the grimmest job market in years or the grimmest in centuries?
context: i teach at a local college in IT. some of my classes are part of the cybersec curriculum.
as far as i have been able track (linkedin, email, etc.) roughly 3/4 of the previous graduating cybersec class has been unable to get a job in cybersec. probably 1/2 of those are struggling to find even basic sysadmin or password-resetter positions.
this is significantly different than when the program started (around 2015 or so), where roughly 4/5 of the graduating class had jobs (specifically in cybersec) lined up at the time of graduation.
cybersec is a bit of an outlier, but i see a similar trend with the networking program and game design program as well (the only other 2 i have first-hand knowledge of)
its rough out there! (i am recommending to my kids that they avoid post-secondary)
Game design also seems like it'd be an outlier fwiw, since it's a niche that people desperately want to get into if they've participated in contemporary entertainment culture in the last 2 decades, and that schools are happy to take their money for, but realistically the competition's always seemed high. Networking is a pretty boring unglamorous pursuit though that's very behind the scenes as well as being difficult and niche.
None of the top cyber security talent I've worked with went to school for it, and I have been underwhelmed by what I see coming from college programs. These kinds of credentials themselves are not a signal of quality to me.
>The kinds of credentials themselves are not a signal of quality to me.
i hear this online a lot but never from the companies and hiring managers that hired our cybersec students for the last decade.
keep in mind, this is not a 6-month "intro to cybersec" or bootcamp-style program.
Goodwill with hiring managers is good. But in a down economy it'd be helpful to boost your reputation more broadly.
If I were running your college's program, I would invest in a presence at Defcon. If just one your students could use their skills to uncover and present something genuinely interesting, it would be worth covering their airfare and accommodations just to get your logo on the screen. If you could do this every other year, your program would have an unparalleled brand.
>Goodwill with hiring managers is good. But in a down economy it'd be helpful to boost your reputation more broadly.
part of our success over the years has been due to our reputation building, presence at local/state/national conventions, etc. that is exactly why the sudden downturn in hiring has been eye-opening.
> some of my classes are part of the cybersec curriculum
> as far as i have been able track (linkedin, email, etc.) roughly 3/4 of the previous graduating cybersec class has been unable to get a job in cybersec. probably 1/2 of those are struggling to find even basic sysadmin or password-resetter positions.
What is the curriculum that is being taught in your program?
If it's "how to be a Splunk or Crowdstrike" admin or "how to be an L1 SOC" I don't think that is a hireable skill at this point.
>If it's "how to be a Splunk or Crowdstrike" admin or "how to be an L1 SOC" I don't think that is a hireable skill at this point.
its not, and up until recently (~2 years or so), the majority of our graduates were instantly picked up.
What is the curriculum though - you don't need to send me the name of the institution but I've been a hiring manager in the space and a PM for some of the larger companies and I haven't been impressed by "Cybersecurity" bootcamps or degree holders unless they also had a tangible track record (eg. HackerOne).
I feel a lot of hiring reflects that as well now - if I want a SWE to build a runtime agent I'm better off hiring a new grad from UC Berkeley who took CS162 and CS161 versus someone who took a summary course but doesn't understand how ld_preload works. Similarly, if I was doing AppSec for WebApps/OWASP I'd rather hire someone with an actual bounty track record on HackerOne instead of a bootcamp grad and potentially even a degree holder.
My best hiring pipeline has been Vets who were in a Cyber MOS with a couple years of hands-on experience and then did a WGU type program, but the WGU program was just a checkbox for HR.
> I am recommending to my kids that they avoid post-secondary
I think that's a mistake, unless you mean "and go into debt for college". Working with many people over the years the educated (in STEM) are noticably better quality than high school or bootcamp folks on average. Work ethic or amount of code written is not an issue, just the general thinking through of problems.
>unless you mean "and go into debt for college"
well, yes. i am not rich. they would need to take loans. and from what i am seeing, they would likely end up working in the exact same position as the 19 year old who decided to go directly into the workforce.
i will, of course, support them no matter what they decide. but when we discuss options, i emphasize skilled trades, or working for a few years before committing themselves to tens of thousands of dollars of debt to very possibly end up in a position that doesnt require the schooling.
For what is worth. I am planning to save about 60k for each and encourage them to go to the State university that is 20minutes from home. Hopefully they can go to college and stay debt free. But it will be really up to them.
I don't mean to argue but living at home and community college + state school is a viable option. I was not wealthy but able to not borrow for school this way. Good luck
it is absolutely viable!
i am just not recommending it as a first choice to my kids. i remember how it was presented to me: "go to post-secondary or be stuck burger-flipping forever."
this is also just one random teacher's opinion, where 99.9% of the context (e.g. academic history of my kids, aptitude, my experiences as a teacher, my location, etc.) are missing. so, mountain of salt and all that. my recommendation is specifically a recommendation for my kids.
https://archive.ph/2026.03.24-100557/https://www.nytimes.com...
A major issue I feel has been a proliferation of lower quality programs charging a premium price as well.
It's become harder to vet undergrads in the US for specific subfields because of either a lack of preparation or subpar career services.
Additonally, at least in CS/CE the number of candidates have skyrocketed, but the reality is most companies can limit new grad hiring to 10-20 target programs nationally and 2-3 local programs and get the talent pipeline they need.
It's ridiculously funny that if I were to graduate from HBS today with an MBA, I would have a lower chance of securing my first job as an analyst at a private equity fund, as a fresh graduate. The numbers for graduates are even more terrible. Yes, I did the math and they are abysmal today.
I didn't read the article (paywalled), but did the headline is "young graduates face the grimmest job market in years". Did they address how many years? I've seen now compared to 2000 & 2008, which were bad, but that we bounced back from. Is it the grimmest job market in years or the grimmest in centuries?
The geezers in power have been grooming them for the peasantry. The signaling is explicit. You will own nothing and you will be happy.
And you will only be happy of course because it’s above you status to worry about the upsetting things.