I think that these protectionist measures are ultimately going to hurt the competitiveness of the US auto industry. Exports and international sales are a big, but not overwhelming part of the revenue for major manufacturers. It's something like 20% of GM's revenue, and maybe 35% of Ford's. When they can't compete internationally, it's small enough that executives will convince themselves to focus on their core market in the US. That will in turn lead to production volumes (and hence economies of scale) slowly dropping. Vehicles from American brands are going to become even more unaffordable than they already are,
At least we can hope that newer manufacturers like Slate and Rivian will keep things reasonable, and major foreign brands like Kia and Toyota might bring the fruits of their knowledge from competing internationally to their US models/factories. I'm not hopeful for the long term future of big three though, especially Stellantis and GM.
In a way, its funny you say Toyota is the foreign brand.
Of domestically produced GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicles, most are shipped to foreign customers; of domestically sold GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicles, most are manufactured by foreign factories. They do some assembly locally, but the majority of it is of foreign manufacture.
However, Toyota manufacturers most of their domestic sales domestically, and operate one of the largest car manufacturing plants in the US, only slightly below Ford's US plant that largely exports to Europe. Of domestically made cars that are domestically sold, Toyota dominates that.
BMW and Nissan also operate plants in the US for domestic use.
I agree that this backwards Reaganite behavior is just going to further shut the Detroit Three out of any future. They're already on the way out, a slow decline since they left the US, but this is going to finally finish those zombies off.
Yea my father is looking for a new car, sedan, and will only buy American. Except American owned companies don’t really make sedans anymore. So he’s unsure what to do. I told him basically any Toyota sedan he buys would be made in the US and it blew his mind. I don’t understand how people who have strong opinions on these sorts of things don’t also do any research at all into their opinion.
Worth noting that the term "domestic" in auto has included Mexico and Canada since NAFTA. The legal meaning was recently changed to "USA-only**" by the current administration, but that's for tariff folks. In the common sense of the term, for manufacturing, absolutely.
I still think it's a useful distinction though. There's also a whole lot of people involved that aren't on the production line (like me). The corporate culture is also very different between the American and Japanese conglomerates I've worked for.
I don't want cars controlled by China's datacenters driving on our roads. Polestar can figure it out if Polestar cares to sell cars here. Not my problem anymore than banning Huawei is my "problem". If the US has trouble selling cars overseas because they're all controlled by Palantir or because the US admin can arbitrarily remotely shut them down for leverage or whatever so be it. It's a design problem.
Very true. This is the domestic auto industry shooting itself in the foot and to boot spending lobbying dollars to do it. The history of US manufacturing being a source of pride for automakers is also over - the people with tribal knowledge have been laid off or forced into retirement. Foreign brands are the majority of owners in US auto manufacturing now, it's a complete reversal of US dominance in the niche and these moves only accelerate the demise of these companies. We are 5-10 years away from seeing another major domestic shutter operations.
I'm not sure how this would even work as most cars have Chinese links in some form.
Under this logic popular car brands that would be removed are Volvo, Polestar, Zeek, Lotus, MG, BYD, Smart, LDV, Chery, GWM, Jaecoo/Omoda, Leapmotor, Xpeng, etc - these are only off the top of my head.
How would it even work with Tesla (America's golden child) - a large amount of their cars are built in China with strong links to the Chinese?
Maybe they'll go by whether the majority ownership is Chinese? In that case Volvo and Polestar (and probably all the others on your list) would be banned (if they're being consistent), but not Tesla.
The US consumers are now becoming more and more like captive preys ... in the names of whatever special interest groups would make up ... so sad and outrageous!
> the US Commerce Department has declined to authorize imports of new Polestars from model year 2027 onward as part of a rule banning connected cars from automakers with Chinese links
Would the cars be allowed if connectivity were cut off? That could be a net win for consumers.
We need these foreign companies here so that we can learn from them to modernize our manufacturing. Not just cars either.
That's how China got started - foreign companies were allowed to partner with and invest in domestic companies. Over time, those domestic companies took over and helped China become the manufacturing powerhouse it is now, not just in China, but globally.
It still has a car industry. Not the best nor the worst choices and some are even made in the us I think. Some in Canada/Mexico at least at the moment.
Couldn't they have just mandated that Polestar cars in the US must not be able to connect to the internet? That would pretty much negate any potential foreign threat related to "connected cars". Just make them... not connected.
I think that these protectionist measures are ultimately going to hurt the competitiveness of the US auto industry. Exports and international sales are a big, but not overwhelming part of the revenue for major manufacturers. It's something like 20% of GM's revenue, and maybe 35% of Ford's. When they can't compete internationally, it's small enough that executives will convince themselves to focus on their core market in the US. That will in turn lead to production volumes (and hence economies of scale) slowly dropping. Vehicles from American brands are going to become even more unaffordable than they already are,
At least we can hope that newer manufacturers like Slate and Rivian will keep things reasonable, and major foreign brands like Kia and Toyota might bring the fruits of their knowledge from competing internationally to their US models/factories. I'm not hopeful for the long term future of big three though, especially Stellantis and GM.
In a way, its funny you say Toyota is the foreign brand.
Of domestically produced GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicles, most are shipped to foreign customers; of domestically sold GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicles, most are manufactured by foreign factories. They do some assembly locally, but the majority of it is of foreign manufacture.
However, Toyota manufacturers most of their domestic sales domestically, and operate one of the largest car manufacturing plants in the US, only slightly below Ford's US plant that largely exports to Europe. Of domestically made cars that are domestically sold, Toyota dominates that.
BMW and Nissan also operate plants in the US for domestic use.
I agree that this backwards Reaganite behavior is just going to further shut the Detroit Three out of any future. They're already on the way out, a slow decline since they left the US, but this is going to finally finish those zombies off.
Yea my father is looking for a new car, sedan, and will only buy American. Except American owned companies don’t really make sedans anymore. So he’s unsure what to do. I told him basically any Toyota sedan he buys would be made in the US and it blew his mind. I don’t understand how people who have strong opinions on these sorts of things don’t also do any research at all into their opinion.
Your father should only be looking at Kelly Blue Book values. What brand ends up retaining theirs year after year? Toyota.
He's right to buy American made when it comes to cars, we know what we're doing... he's just gonna have to buy a Toyota to get American.
Worth noting that the term "domestic" in auto has included Mexico and Canada since NAFTA. The legal meaning was recently changed to "USA-only**" by the current administration, but that's for tariff folks. In the common sense of the term, for manufacturing, absolutely.
I still think it's a useful distinction though. There's also a whole lot of people involved that aren't on the production line (like me). The corporate culture is also very different between the American and Japanese conglomerates I've worked for.
I don't want cars controlled by China's datacenters driving on our roads. Polestar can figure it out if Polestar cares to sell cars here. Not my problem anymore than banning Huawei is my "problem". If the US has trouble selling cars overseas because they're all controlled by Palantir or because the US admin can arbitrarily remotely shut them down for leverage or whatever so be it. It's a design problem.
Very true. This is the domestic auto industry shooting itself in the foot and to boot spending lobbying dollars to do it. The history of US manufacturing being a source of pride for automakers is also over - the people with tribal knowledge have been laid off or forced into retirement. Foreign brands are the majority of owners in US auto manufacturing now, it's a complete reversal of US dominance in the niche and these moves only accelerate the demise of these companies. We are 5-10 years away from seeing another major domestic shutter operations.
I'm not sure how this would even work as most cars have Chinese links in some form.
Under this logic popular car brands that would be removed are Volvo, Polestar, Zeek, Lotus, MG, BYD, Smart, LDV, Chery, GWM, Jaecoo/Omoda, Leapmotor, Xpeng, etc - these are only off the top of my head.
How would it even work with Tesla (America's golden child) - a large amount of their cars are built in China with strong links to the Chinese?
Maybe they'll go by whether the majority ownership is Chinese? In that case Volvo and Polestar (and probably all the others on your list) would be banned (if they're being consistent), but not Tesla.
The US consumers are now becoming more and more like captive preys ... in the names of whatever special interest groups would make up ... so sad and outrageous!
> the US Commerce Department has declined to authorize imports of new Polestars from model year 2027 onward as part of a rule banning connected cars from automakers with Chinese links
Would the cars be allowed if connectivity were cut off? That could be a net win for consumers.
Surprised they were here in the first place since the USA needs to protect its own car industry.
Sad because polestar seems genuinely good from the little I’ve seen about them.
We need these foreign companies here so that we can learn from them to modernize our manufacturing. Not just cars either.
That's how China got started - foreign companies were allowed to partner with and invest in domestic companies. Over time, those domestic companies took over and helped China become the manufacturing powerhouse it is now, not just in China, but globally.
I wonder why the U.S. is only interested in protecting its car industry and not others.
Because of lobbying. That's usually the answer when policies don't make sense
Both oil and gas lobbying against BEV and USA auto manufacturers who outsource or offshore all their parts already.
USA auto makers can’t compete at China Ev (subsidized?) pricing and probably quality.
It still has a car industry. Not the best nor the worst choices and some are even made in the us I think. Some in Canada/Mexico at least at the moment.
I wouldn’t mind more foreign car companies if it means alternatives to what’s being offered today.
I don’t see why they should be restricted if most industries don’t also have similar restrictions.
China's EV market plus more consumer protections would still beat all the other EVs out there.
Are they going to be banning Volvo too given they have the same parent company?
It'll be interesting to see how far this protectionism goes.
The article discusses the answer to your question.
Couldn't they have just mandated that Polestar cars in the US must not be able to connect to the internet? That would pretty much negate any potential foreign threat related to "connected cars". Just make them... not connected.
making them not connected would lower the price from $80k to about $45
Ah yes, because famously no one has a modem in their pants pocket these days.
Internet built into a car is just another unnecessary subscription.