Huh, cool. If you want to save a few bucks you can go with a stainless steel French press or a mason jar if you're into cold brews. You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
This summer was sunny and hot in Colorado, so every morning I'd make a jar of sun coffee. I'd leave it out through the day and overnight. The next morning I'd pull it in, filter it, refill it with grounds and water and take it outside again. It was cool enough to enjoy and really smooth.
French press coffee isn't so healthy either because of stuff like cafestols in the fines (small diameter grounds) that slip through the french press screen. To get rid of those you want a brewing scheme with a paper filter. The simplest no-plastic approach is a Chemex. They have a history and they also look cool as heck. Unfortunately, since they are made of glass, they can break if you're not careful. https://chemexcoffeemaker.com/
Nice lazy method: overnight cold brew + pour into a [glass] pourover w/paper filter.
Make a lot to only use a couple paper filters a week. Most days, your coffee is already ready in the fridge, no wait (unless you wanna microwave it or something).
Make it really strong and dilute with a lot of [non-dairy] milk to go easy on the stomach.
When you get used to the microwave you have, you can hit the same spot every time. It's a formula depending on your cup, the wattage of he microwave and time.
I can hit the temperature I want every time on a Bosch microwave from 80s which has two power levels and a rotary, mechanical timer.
I generally fill the cup to the same level, and fill it from the same source in the house in 99% of the time, so they are implicit constants in the equation, at least for me.
It's hard to find plastic-free normal paper filter coffee makers. A few exist but mostly only for small batches. Also, the porcelain or glass ones are breakable just like the Chemex. I'm a bit suspicious of copper (Hario makes one of those). Kalita has a stainless steel one but it's small and expensive. I'd be interested if you know of anything else.
The Chemex can also be a little annoying because of the tendency of the filter to block the 'spout', causing the brewer to stall, and requiring a chopstick or straw to avoid. That said, I use my Chemex twice a week.
I've had one for about a decade. It reliably produces better espresso than >99% of Bay Area coffee shops. (>95% if you exclude national chains).
If I were buying one today, I'd toss the flow control head, silicon sleeve on the cylinder and the pressure gauge, but those come with it for free now, so to each their own, I guess.
The trick is to boil the stainless steel cylinder in your kettle (PID at sea level, conventional above ~ 2000 ft elevation) with the water so that you get the temperature dialed in within a degree C or so, like a conventional (lead-filled, unlike the flair) Italian machine. I use a pair of tongs to pick up the stainless steel cylinder, so I don't need the sleeve. (Check the boiling point of water at your elevation -- unlike a steam machine, this can't exceed that temperature, so stuff might start to run kinda cool at 3000 ft or so).
Flair doesn't sell a "true" classic anymore, but I bet they could get the bare bones variant I use to < $100 if they tried. Maybe someone else will when any patents run out. My only other complaint is that the two-in-one bottomless porta-filter I have runs the espresso across plastic when in non-bottomless mode.
Note that the thing I linked has a plastic plunger. They make a stainless steel one as an upgrade. At that point, you're down to one silcone o-ring in the water / coffee path. Everything else is stainless, so no lead. The next thing to worry about is nickel, but that only matters if you're allergic. I used to use the SS plunger, but then you need to boil it too if you want to dial in the water temperature.
I hve either never had a good espresso or genuinely can't tell the difference between that as americano and an aeropress/v60. Probably best for me not to spend any more on these machines with my unrefined palette
Honestly, I'd not be that hard on myself, and making bad espresso is easy in comparison to making a good one, but you don't need to go influencer levels of rituals to get good espresso either.
A good espresso/americano has more bite in taste than a good Aeropress/V60/drip. I personally love smoother profiles (less acidity, less bite, etc.), so darker roasts and espresso on the bitter side is not my kind of thing, but preferences differ. OTOH, I can make myself a cup of instant coffee if I feel lazy.
Again, there's no need to punch yourself like that. Try, experiment and build your taste profile. These kinds of hobbies needs some kind of experience to refine what you like and what you don't.
Most importantly, don't let anyone's taste dictate yours and vice versa. I never get upset just because how someone I know prefers their coffee way different than mine, but they insist that I shouldn't drink that coffee, because that doesn't fit their taste preferences.
There's no wrong, but only things you like. You can't fail at this, because there's no way to do so.
When I broke my french press I got by fine with just throwing grounds in a pot of boiled water and decanting it off after a few minutes steep. Basically all the press does anyhow just less convenient.
I use a moka pot. I don't feel comfortable calling what it makes espresso but for it's still pretty decent. If I had more patience I would do pour over at home.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even the $10k slayer espresso machine has a plastic water resevoir. Granted the brewing assembly is mostly plastic free.
While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
Simple is usually best; glass or ceramic pour over, stainless press, or even the traditional South American coffee sock[0]
> While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
I think the argument is pretty simple:
- Plastic is bad (environment, microplastics, etc)
- We should minimize it
That doesn't necessitate a "all the way to zero or don't bother" logic, which what you're saying reads as.
Coffee pods machines have been an environmental nightmare, great to see a growing trend that addresses this.
"This machine used 99% less plastic over its lifetime, but it still uses some plastic, so why bother?"
"You say reducing plastic is good for the environment, but then you drink coffee which is bad for the environment, so you shouldn't bother even reducing plastic"
"EVs still use energy that's been generated from gas, even if its a lot less, so you might as well just drive a diesel powered pick up truck"
Yeah this is the real issue. Ironically Nespresso pods are probably more environmentally friendly even if thrown in the trash and not recycled because the real environmental burden comes from the coffee itself and those pods are highly efficient in terms of how little coffee is consumed per shot.
I still drink coffee regularly so am not going to say people should stop doing what I continue to do but it's worth it for coffee drinkers to be thoughtful about the impact of their consumption.
Apparently producing coffee beans for one large coffee uses 140kg of water. Ok, that sounds like a lot.
But also apparently producing one meal worth of chicken takes 700kg of water. Over 3000kg of water for beef. So I think, in comparison, coffee water use if negligible.
stainless steel might be less bad for environment if u chuck it in the bin but if you look at the entire process from getting ores to having the steel item i dont really think its a very big difference.
used to live nexto a huge steel refinery and many mental diseases and cancers in the area are up more than 50% not to mention lots of birth defects etc.
maybe its effects are more local idk. Not sure how glass and ceramic are made.
ofc not bad to try and eliminate plastics but having 1 plastic free device that is overly expensive is really just a status thing. it contributes nexto nothing to environmental goals which i think eliminating plastics belongs to.
u can just put the grounds in a cup and pour hot water on it afterall. tastes fine.
The irony is that replacing a perfectly functional plastic coffee maker with a brand new $500 stainless steel one might be worse environmentally than just continuing to use what you have
And unless you're picking it up at your roaster in a container you bring yourself the beans have probably been rattling around in a polyethylene-lined bag.
This sort of defeatism is why people don't try. Consumers can shift products through purchase behaviors. We're already seeing improvements in kitchen appliances and gear, cosmetics, some outdoor gear.
Believe it or not, lawsuits and regulations are much more effective. Consumer behavior rarely moves the needle. It may make you feel better, but you can’t consume your way to a better world.
Conspicuous consumption has many forms, “ethical” consumerism is just the latest variation.
Would love to see some research on this. My libertarian friends are a dog with a bone in their belief that our individual dollar-votes are the foremost and correct way we shape the economic landscape. I can’t imagine how anyone arrives there from research or history or experience, but I guess it keeps their Ayn Rand-ian ambition fired up.
That being said i wish they were right. I pay a premium for organic and farmers market. As well as plastic free everything. It feels good to support those businesses, but they are still mostly just getting by.
Beyond lawsuits and regulations - I’ve personally seen what Europe is doing to deploy financial programs for transitions to, for example, regenerative farming. It really works. With the extra funds/financing, farms are able to plan 2-5 year payback instead 10+. The incentive alignment makes a huge difference.
Asbestos, lead, CFCs, DDT, there’s a ton of examples of where it worked. The question as usual is where regulation is appropriate and how far it should go. Banning lead pipes was obvious, and it worked once people understood the downsides and limited upside, but banning drugs has been a failure.
You have to look at the demand side of the equation, because creating black markets isn’t a good idea, and neither is creating widespread resistance and discontent. Governments aren’t all powerful (thank goodness), so regulation has to focus on the stuff that’s most harmful and has the highest chance of success.
If they were very profitable instead of just getting by, more of them would appear until they were just getting by again. So that's not a sign of lack of impact of your spending.
A small subset of coffee drinkers might produce a purchase trend that leads to a brief production of an overpriced coffee machine which still ends up being produced in the cheapest, dirtiest country they can get away with. The rest do not care and never will.
I use a stainless steel moka pot, which I find very efficient (a minute or less to get coffee ready), healthy and eco-friendly. I hate capsules because of the waste they create once used and the energy that goes into making them.
From what I've read, it's true that the oils aren't filtered out as well as with paper filters, but their contribution is minimal.
Yeah me too. Stovetop pot on induction stove. Takes less space than a coffee machine, less waste, and the coffee comes out hotter. Oh, and I can make two cups at once.
Those pod machines are just all around crap. Kind of acceptable in an office kitchen, but really surprised anyone wants one at home.
A pair of weeks ago I've had the opportunity of trying a Lavazza Tabli' in one of those event they do at malls were you can try new coffe machines for free.
I was attracted by the removal of the plastic waste,
but the coffe has been very underwhelming.
Not in the sense that it was not to my taste but that was plainly bad.
I know that it might have been a single fluke, the machine or whatever, still tho, did not like the coffee.
My wife and her friends tried it as well some hours later and told me the same thing without me influencing their opinion with mine.
I am happy to see a change in that way but I don't feel it's a viable alternative to traditional capsule machines, meanwhile I'll stick to my dear Moka.
Took me forever to find a french press that was all glass and stainless steel. Most of them the little filter at the cap (which vintage ones lack entirely fwiw) is some black plastic, but I found a bodum off crate and barrel a couple years ago that was stainless for that part too.
I dropped my plastic Aeropress enough times to make a glass version impractical for me. However, they brought out a double-walled stainless steel version which is very expensive, but I figured that it was about time that I spent more money on the brewer considering I've got a more expensive Baratza grinder. I was happily using that and now Aeropress have brought out a metal pressure valve filter cap that is over-priced. So, here I am with a stupidly expensive metal Aeropress setup (I use a metal filter disc too).
Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
Instead of a new $500 coffee maker like the ones in the article, that takes special (likely costly) presssed pellets of coffee, get a Chemex pour over for $50 and you'll never need another coffee maker again (unless you drop it). No plastic, and you can use whatever coffee you want.
The original founder sold the company and the people who took over promptly did all the things people asked for and he said no to.
The glass aeropress is way more expensive ($200 rather than $30) and is bad in all the ways he said it'd be bad. Heavier, fragile, and makes worse coffee unless you put some extra effort into preheating it. Looks better, though.
Can't say I really have a problem with them. Let them sell expensive glass ones for the folks who care about the look. I've been plenty happy with my plastic ones (including the travel set).
It's not actually glass but a different synthetic/plastic. They do, however, make a stainless steel version. A lot of food safe stainless steel products are coated in PFAS though.
Now I'm going down the same rabbit hole I went down when people started talking about using wax instead of plastic, trying to determine if something being glass means it's definitely not plastic.
It does look like things we recognize as glass aren't plastic. So that's nice!
I have a Technivorm Moccamaster KBG-V and they use good plastic for their parts but it's still plastic (except the thermal carafe etc). There's a new copycat version that's all glass and plastic (Simply Good I think?) but not sure how it actually performs.
What I'm surprised at is that no one has made non-plastic drop-in replacement parts for the reservoir, basket, and funnel. The KBG-V is highly modular so it's strange to me that no one has gone this route. It shouldn't change anything significant in the brewing process or quality of the coffee.
You can purchase a kit now that eliminates all plastic from the brew path, including a Hario V60 glass dripper, metal bracket with cork adapter, and a glass carafe with cork lid (all for $120, or buy parts separately). (No affiliation.)
Typical paper cups that are used to serve coffee produce massively more plastic particles and they are more toxic. One cup per year exceeds what whole year of coffee maker plastic releases..
They do when they are at work. People don't carry a tumbler when they go to the movies. There are starbuck's what do you call groupies and alike. The pods produce a lot of micro plastic too.
Years ago I looked for all stainless coffee maker and even the most expensive ones had plastic parts. The drip mechanism for all of them had plastic parts. I don't know if they have changed or not.
what, they don't have their company-provided mug with the company logo on it? Though to be fair at work, most employee have been given a mug, there's a stack of freely usable mugs next to the coffee machine and there's a dishwasher there too so you don't have to wash them by hand, but there are still people using the paper cups.
I'm sure a lot of workplaces have a kitchen with an assortment of random mugs. Maybe this is true at a construction site, but nowhere I've ever worked lacked non-paper cups.
Nope! The number of jokes I get at the office coffee machine (well the nespresso next to it) with my shot glass, you wouldn't believe. btw anyone tried the seaweed sphere capsules? :-)
When I drank coffee I would use a Hario V60. Avoiding plastic is trivial (and cheap). $40-50 for the entire setup. I preferred to waste my money on expensive beans instead.
The V60 and the Switch are so good! I prefer the V60 when I have time to brew, but the Switch also makes a great cup that's a bit smoother tasting (which is good sometimes, not as good other times), and requires less supervision to brew.
V60 is still the undisputed champ for cleanup though. Dump the filter in the trash, rinse the dripper, and you're done.
I make coffee in an electric percolator. It’s stainless steel, the coffee never touches any plastic. People online say this is the worst way to make coffee, but it tastes fine to me.
I used to grind my coffee and manually make espresso. Years ago though I switched to an all-in-one. I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever. I've since had to replace some internal parts and I'm sure the display will eventually fail and not be replaceable, but those grinders are going to last centuries!
I'm assuming you've already noted in your will that the ceramic grinders be harvested from your coffee maker when everything's being sold at an estate sale otherwise what was the point of anything
> I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever.
I wonder about this - I've got a few 1Zpresso grinders - they're rated for 100-200kg of coffee, and napkin math says my most-used one has probably done about 70kg to date. At grinder prices and my age though, not sure I'd ever come out ahead with BIFL burrs though.
No ceramic burr grinders make comparable coffee to steel burrs. They’re all worse. Enjoy your steel burrs and don’t overthink it. Even “worn out” I bet they will taste better than ceramic burrs.
I'm guessing because ceramics are hard, but not as hard as steel, so they're less precise as grinders.
Thing is, no grinder can produce perfectly-sized grounds 100% of the time. Due to randomness in how the beans break, there will always be pieces smaller than the desired size. (Probably larger pieces sneak through, too.)
Grinders all produce a distribution, it's just that burr grinders tend to have a tighter distribution than cheap spice grinders. I'd guess that ceramic burr grinders have ever-so-slightly more give than steel, and will let through slightly more undesired grounds as a result.
Sorry but no, it has the reputation it deserves. It's an admirable invention for fast caffeine delivery, but you can get so much better flavor out of coffee that it's not even close.
I mean, among real coffee snobs the status symbol is mostly not using a Keurig or Lavazza machine at all. Pour overs, Espresso machines, most status symbol coffee equipment is pretty light on the plastic already.
I think it's less about status or quality and more about a convenient cup of complimentary coffee in a waiting room that doesn't come with two ounces of environmental guilt.
Yeah, my normal morning coffee for my wife and I is from a Kalita Wave glass brewer. No plastic touches the coffee. Costs $40. Ceramic or stainless steel also available.
This. Anyone serious about coffee who is not going with one of these machines purely for convenience and speed would not otherwise consider them in a million years.
Do people take pods coffee seriously? If you want to signal true status with coffee you pull your roasted coffee beans from a very exotic place, ground them in your very expensive stainless steel manual grinder and make a very strong, very flavorful espresso in your generic chinese espresso machine (that steo is just heat, water and pressure, no need to go overboard there).
In the hinterlands we use a variable speed drill, a Hilti at this level, to power our manual grinder for the roasted exotic beans before using a stainless steel Alessi moka pot for our coffee.
No sense using our hands to belabor the point when grinding.
I would enjoy a plastic-free drip machine with a thermal carafe for convenient large batches. For now, been enjoying a stainless steel french press and pour over.
I think you mean that setup does not make good espresso compared to an espresso machine. As someone that enjoys good coffee but doesn't particularly like drinking an overly strong thimble of coffee, a cup of milk on top of a thimble of coffee or a grossly stringent cup of coffee I hate the equation that espresso is the best coffee. My favourite bits of coffee, what I enjoy in lighter roasts is lost in espresso. Espresso is nice for cafes because it's a quick non-batch brew, that's about it.
Nonsense. They are different drinks. Filter coffee through a French press can be fantastic, as can Espresso. You can also get dreadful espresso and dreadful filter coffee. However if you start with good beans the chance of getting good coffee out of a French press is much higher than a proper espresso machine (If you know what you're doing it can be amazing, but dialing it in properly is no easy task)
So ridiculous we already have ESE pods for traditional expresso machines. We replaced the Nespresso machine in the office with a normal expresso machine so people can make bring their own ground coffee if they want but we also offer ESE pods for people who don't care but still want a good coffee.
Aeropress is a similar amount of effort and just as quick.
Huh, cool. If you want to save a few bucks you can go with a stainless steel French press or a mason jar if you're into cold brews. You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
This summer was sunny and hot in Colorado, so every morning I'd make a jar of sun coffee. I'd leave it out through the day and overnight. The next morning I'd pull it in, filter it, refill it with grounds and water and take it outside again. It was cool enough to enjoy and really smooth.
French press coffee isn't so healthy either because of stuff like cafestols in the fines (small diameter grounds) that slip through the french press screen. To get rid of those you want a brewing scheme with a paper filter. The simplest no-plastic approach is a Chemex. They have a history and they also look cool as heck. Unfortunately, since they are made of glass, they can break if you're not careful. https://chemexcoffeemaker.com/
In case anyone is wondering why a paper filter is necessary.
https://www.harvardhealth.org/healthy-aging-and-longevity/wh...
Nice lazy method: overnight cold brew + pour into a [glass] pourover w/paper filter.
Make a lot to only use a couple paper filters a week. Most days, your coffee is already ready in the fridge, no wait (unless you wanna microwave it or something).
Make it really strong and dilute with a lot of [non-dairy] milk to go easy on the stomach.
How do you heat it up then? Or is it supposed to be drank cold?
I heat it up in the microwave all the time. Smooth as a pour-over and much less of a hassle to make.
That is the advise I got before, but I find this is super difficult to hit the right temperature. I either get boiling coffee, or luke warm.
When you get used to the microwave you have, you can hit the same spot every time. It's a formula depending on your cup, the wattage of he microwave and time.
I can hit the temperature I want every time on a Bosch microwave from 80s which has two power levels and a rotary, mechanical timer.
Also volume of liquid and temperature of liquid and cup.
I generally fill the cup to the same level, and fill it from the same source in the house in 99% of the time, so they are implicit constants in the equation, at least for me.
Other than the fact that it does looks cool, what is simpler or better about this over a hario V60 ceramic dripper directly over a mug?
Which is ironic because if you’re into Chemex you’re into vinyl, in my experience.
What is the advantage of this over a normal paper filter coffee maker?
It's hard to find plastic-free normal paper filter coffee makers. A few exist but mostly only for small batches. Also, the porcelain or glass ones are breakable just like the Chemex. I'm a bit suspicious of copper (Hario makes one of those). Kalita has a stainless steel one but it's small and expensive. I'd be interested if you know of anything else.
If you don't want to use paper filters, you can use Swiss Gold, generic all-steel or cloth ones as well. Also there's Stanley's all steel pour-over.
When you want to go low or no plastics, there are many choices now.
The Chemex can also be a little annoying because of the tendency of the filter to block the 'spout', causing the brewer to stall, and requiring a chopstick or straw to avoid. That said, I use my Chemex twice a week.
If you want to save fewer bucks, get to zero plastic and get better espresso, you can buy one of these and a burr grinder:
https://flairespresso.com/products/the-flair-classic
I've had one for about a decade. It reliably produces better espresso than >99% of Bay Area coffee shops. (>95% if you exclude national chains).
If I were buying one today, I'd toss the flow control head, silicon sleeve on the cylinder and the pressure gauge, but those come with it for free now, so to each their own, I guess.
The trick is to boil the stainless steel cylinder in your kettle (PID at sea level, conventional above ~ 2000 ft elevation) with the water so that you get the temperature dialed in within a degree C or so, like a conventional (lead-filled, unlike the flair) Italian machine. I use a pair of tongs to pick up the stainless steel cylinder, so I don't need the sleeve. (Check the boiling point of water at your elevation -- unlike a steam machine, this can't exceed that temperature, so stuff might start to run kinda cool at 3000 ft or so).
Flair doesn't sell a "true" classic anymore, but I bet they could get the bare bones variant I use to < $100 if they tried. Maybe someone else will when any patents run out. My only other complaint is that the two-in-one bottomless porta-filter I have runs the espresso across plastic when in non-bottomless mode.
Note that the thing I linked has a plastic plunger. They make a stainless steel one as an upgrade. At that point, you're down to one silcone o-ring in the water / coffee path. Everything else is stainless, so no lead. The next thing to worry about is nickel, but that only matters if you're allergic. I used to use the SS plunger, but then you need to boil it too if you want to dial in the water temperature.
I've tried the Flair and I find the Aeropress much less fussy.
Aeropress is accelerated drip coffee. It's not espresso by any means.
I hve either never had a good espresso or genuinely can't tell the difference between that as americano and an aeropress/v60. Probably best for me not to spend any more on these machines with my unrefined palette
Honestly, I'd not be that hard on myself, and making bad espresso is easy in comparison to making a good one, but you don't need to go influencer levels of rituals to get good espresso either.
A good espresso/americano has more bite in taste than a good Aeropress/V60/drip. I personally love smoother profiles (less acidity, less bite, etc.), so darker roasts and espresso on the bitter side is not my kind of thing, but preferences differ. OTOH, I can make myself a cup of instant coffee if I feel lazy.
Again, there's no need to punch yourself like that. Try, experiment and build your taste profile. These kinds of hobbies needs some kind of experience to refine what you like and what you don't.
Most importantly, don't let anyone's taste dictate yours and vice versa. I never get upset just because how someone I know prefers their coffee way different than mine, but they insist that I shouldn't drink that coffee, because that doesn't fit their taste preferences.
There's no wrong, but only things you like. You can't fail at this, because there's no way to do so.
Aeropress cannot really do an espresso at a full 7,8 or 9 bar. It’s more like a pour over.
I'm guessing the Flair can't either. That "pressure gauge" is hilarious.
When I broke my french press I got by fine with just throwing grounds in a pot of boiled water and decanting it off after a few minutes steep. Basically all the press does anyhow just less convenient.
Cowboy coffee. Simple, bur effective.
A percolator would be perfect for you then. Plus they make a really pleasing sound!
> You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
Now I'm curious whether you mean a higher status (which I infer when folks are using such things) or a lower status (which I could also infer).
It’s (attempted) countersignaling.
I haven't heard the expression "sun coffee" before. Is it just a colloquial cold brew?
I should get my cold brew setup out, thanks for the reminder.
i dont like french press coffee
FWIW, French press and cold brew are entirely different - the fact that a French press was used to filter cold brew is really kind of incidental.
I use a moka pot. I don't feel comfortable calling what it makes espresso but for it's still pretty decent. If I had more patience I would do pour over at home.
Well, the moka pot makes moka, not espresso ;-).
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even the $10k slayer espresso machine has a plastic water resevoir. Granted the brewing assembly is mostly plastic free.
While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
Simple is usually best; glass or ceramic pour over, stainless press, or even the traditional South American coffee sock[0]
[0]https://perfectdailygrind.com/2016/01/coffee-sock-old-school...
> While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
I think the argument is pretty simple:
- Plastic is bad (environment, microplastics, etc) - We should minimize it
That doesn't necessitate a "all the way to zero or don't bother" logic, which what you're saying reads as.
Coffee pods machines have been an environmental nightmare, great to see a growing trend that addresses this.
If you care enough about the environment to get rid of plastic you should get rid of coffee too, this argument makes no sense
"This machine used 99% less plastic over its lifetime, but it still uses some plastic, so why bother?"
"You say reducing plastic is good for the environment, but then you drink coffee which is bad for the environment, so you shouldn't bother even reducing plastic"
"EVs still use energy that's been generated from gas, even if its a lot less, so you might as well just drive a diesel powered pick up truck"
Yeah this is the real issue. Ironically Nespresso pods are probably more environmentally friendly even if thrown in the trash and not recycled because the real environmental burden comes from the coffee itself and those pods are highly efficient in terms of how little coffee is consumed per shot.
I still drink coffee regularly so am not going to say people should stop doing what I continue to do but it's worth it for coffee drinkers to be thoughtful about the impact of their consumption.
Environmental burden of coffee: are you taking about transport costs to wherever you are, or something else?
Not OP, but coffee is really high on water use, and can be a big cause of deforestation in some cases. So they're probably getting at this.
Apparently producing coffee beans for one large coffee uses 140kg of water. Ok, that sounds like a lot.
But also apparently producing one meal worth of chicken takes 700kg of water. Over 3000kg of water for beef. So I think, in comparison, coffee water use if negligible.
Italian Moka Pot is one more simple and cheap plastic free option.
stainless steel might be less bad for environment if u chuck it in the bin but if you look at the entire process from getting ores to having the steel item i dont really think its a very big difference.
used to live nexto a huge steel refinery and many mental diseases and cancers in the area are up more than 50% not to mention lots of birth defects etc.
maybe its effects are more local idk. Not sure how glass and ceramic are made.
ofc not bad to try and eliminate plastics but having 1 plastic free device that is overly expensive is really just a status thing. it contributes nexto nothing to environmental goals which i think eliminating plastics belongs to.
u can just put the grounds in a cup and pour hot water on it afterall. tastes fine.
The irony is that replacing a perfectly functional plastic coffee maker with a brand new $500 stainless steel one might be worse environmentally than just continuing to use what you have
It’s not about the environment for a lot of people, it’s about microplastics and their body
This one has a glass reservoir. Look at the product page images before you decide to bear any news
Well, it was paywalled, but that's beside the point. The point is that this marketeering contraption solves a problem that the marketeers created.
Coffee was enjoyed for hundreds of years before plastic was invented. The answer is not to get rid of the plastic, but get rid of the machine.
And unless you're picking it up at your roaster in a container you bring yourself the beans have probably been rattling around in a polyethylene-lined bag.
I was very skeptical but apparently the Caraway machine uses a glass reservoir and stainless steel pipes.
> it's practically impossible in the modern world
This sort of defeatism is why people don't try. Consumers can shift products through purchase behaviors. We're already seeing improvements in kitchen appliances and gear, cosmetics, some outdoor gear.
Believe it or not, lawsuits and regulations are much more effective. Consumer behavior rarely moves the needle. It may make you feel better, but you can’t consume your way to a better world.
Conspicuous consumption has many forms, “ethical” consumerism is just the latest variation.
Would love to see some research on this. My libertarian friends are a dog with a bone in their belief that our individual dollar-votes are the foremost and correct way we shape the economic landscape. I can’t imagine how anyone arrives there from research or history or experience, but I guess it keeps their Ayn Rand-ian ambition fired up.
That being said i wish they were right. I pay a premium for organic and farmers market. As well as plastic free everything. It feels good to support those businesses, but they are still mostly just getting by.
Beyond lawsuits and regulations - I’ve personally seen what Europe is doing to deploy financial programs for transitions to, for example, regenerative farming. It really works. With the extra funds/financing, farms are able to plan 2-5 year payback instead 10+. The incentive alignment makes a huge difference.
Asbestos, lead, CFCs, DDT, there’s a ton of examples of where it worked. The question as usual is where regulation is appropriate and how far it should go. Banning lead pipes was obvious, and it worked once people understood the downsides and limited upside, but banning drugs has been a failure.
You have to look at the demand side of the equation, because creating black markets isn’t a good idea, and neither is creating widespread resistance and discontent. Governments aren’t all powerful (thank goodness), so regulation has to focus on the stuff that’s most harmful and has the highest chance of success.
If they were very profitable instead of just getting by, more of them would appear until they were just getting by again. So that's not a sign of lack of impact of your spending.
A small subset of coffee drinkers might produce a purchase trend that leads to a brief production of an overpriced coffee machine which still ends up being produced in the cheapest, dirtiest country they can get away with. The rest do not care and never will.
While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible
I don't, and this is just stupid virtue-signaling for the easily gullible hypochondriacs.
Plastics came from hydrocarbons, which make up the bulk of all living matter.
And all hydrocarbons have the exact same health effects, amirite?
I use a stainless steel moka pot, which I find very efficient (a minute or less to get coffee ready), healthy and eco-friendly. I hate capsules because of the waste they create once used and the energy that goes into making them.
From what I've read, it's true that the oils aren't filtered out as well as with paper filters, but their contribution is minimal.
By the way, always coffee with milk.
Yeah me too. Stovetop pot on induction stove. Takes less space than a coffee machine, less waste, and the coffee comes out hotter. Oh, and I can make two cups at once.
Those pod machines are just all around crap. Kind of acceptable in an office kitchen, but really surprised anyone wants one at home.
A pair of weeks ago I've had the opportunity of trying a Lavazza Tabli' in one of those event they do at malls were you can try new coffe machines for free.
I was attracted by the removal of the plastic waste, but the coffe has been very underwhelming. Not in the sense that it was not to my taste but that was plainly bad. I know that it might have been a single fluke, the machine or whatever, still tho, did not like the coffee.
My wife and her friends tried it as well some hours later and told me the same thing without me influencing their opinion with mine.
I am happy to see a change in that way but I don't feel it's a viable alternative to traditional capsule machines, meanwhile I'll stick to my dear Moka.
(context: I'm italian)
I like Moka pots. Zero plastic
But seriously it's a shame how hard it is to find products like coffee makers and electric kettles with no plastic. Heat and plastic don't mix
Took me forever to find a french press that was all glass and stainless steel. Most of them the little filter at the cap (which vintage ones lack entirely fwiw) is some black plastic, but I found a bodum off crate and barrel a couple years ago that was stainless for that part too.
Still has a polymer gasket :)
> Heat and plastic don't mix
actually they do, and that's the problem
Aeropress makes a glass version although I was never too concerned about the microplastic risk
I dropped my plastic Aeropress enough times to make a glass version impractical for me. However, they brought out a double-walled stainless steel version which is very expensive, but I figured that it was about time that I spent more money on the brewer considering I've got a more expensive Baratza grinder. I was happily using that and now Aeropress have brought out a metal pressure valve filter cap that is over-priced. So, here I am with a stupidly expensive metal Aeropress setup (I use a metal filter disc too).
Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
Instead of a new $500 coffee maker like the ones in the article, that takes special (likely costly) presssed pellets of coffee, get a Chemex pour over for $50 and you'll never need another coffee maker again (unless you drop it). No plastic, and you can use whatever coffee you want.
The original founder sold the company and the people who took over promptly did all the things people asked for and he said no to.
The glass aeropress is way more expensive ($200 rather than $30) and is bad in all the ways he said it'd be bad. Heavier, fragile, and makes worse coffee unless you put some extra effort into preheating it. Looks better, though.
Can't say I really have a problem with them. Let them sell expensive glass ones for the folks who care about the look. I've been plenty happy with my plastic ones (including the travel set).
> Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
The expensive glass one uses double walled glass, so it’s not too bad. It’s $200 though which is ridiculous.
Bodum makes a pourover thingy that is no more than $20-30. Chemex is just the "prestige" brand.
How are other people supposed to understand that you’re wealthy and attractive if you buy the plebeian brand?
It's not actually glass but a different synthetic/plastic. They do, however, make a stainless steel version. A lot of food safe stainless steel products are coated in PFAS though.
Now I'm going down the same rabbit hole I went down when people started talking about using wax instead of plastic, trying to determine if something being glass means it's definitely not plastic.
It does look like things we recognize as glass aren't plastic. So that's nice!
I own one. It's glass and cast aluminum. Pricey but feels very solid. The glass does not get hot. It's very think.
I have a Technivorm Moccamaster KBG-V and they use good plastic for their parts but it's still plastic (except the thermal carafe etc). There's a new copycat version that's all glass and plastic (Simply Good I think?) but not sure how it actually performs.
What I'm surprised at is that no one has made non-plastic drop-in replacement parts for the reservoir, basket, and funnel. The KBG-V is highly modular so it's strange to me that no one has gone this route. It shouldn't change anything significant in the brewing process or quality of the coffee.
Technivorm Moccamaster KBG-V
That sounds more like a gun in Cyberpunk 2077 than a coffee machine.
You can purchase a kit now that eliminates all plastic from the brew path, including a Hario V60 glass dripper, metal bracket with cork adapter, and a glass carafe with cork lid (all for $120, or buy parts separately). (No affiliation.)
https://www.manual.is/semi-manual
Does it even make a difference for non-heated parts? Potable water is delivered in PVC pipes and HDPE hoses these days.
Typical paper cups that are used to serve coffee produce massively more plastic particles and they are more toxic. One cup per year exceeds what whole year of coffee maker plastic releases..
plastic coffee maker: 7-20 particles
paper cup : 25000 particles
https://getplasticproof.com/blog/does-coffee-have-microplast...
https://sifts.co/blogs/microplastics/microplastics-and-coffe...
https://sprudge.com/hot-to-go-which-type-of-coffee-has-the-m...
Ok, but real coffee drinkers don't use paper cups ...
They do when they are at work. People don't carry a tumbler when they go to the movies. There are starbuck's what do you call groupies and alike. The pods produce a lot of micro plastic too.
Years ago I looked for all stainless coffee maker and even the most expensive ones had plastic parts. The drip mechanism for all of them had plastic parts. I don't know if they have changed or not.
> They do when they are at work.
what, they don't have their company-provided mug with the company logo on it? Though to be fair at work, most employee have been given a mug, there's a stack of freely usable mugs next to the coffee machine and there's a dishwasher there too so you don't have to wash them by hand, but there are still people using the paper cups.
I'm sure a lot of workplaces have a kitchen with an assortment of random mugs. Maybe this is true at a construction site, but nowhere I've ever worked lacked non-paper cups.
Nope! The number of jokes I get at the office coffee machine (well the nespresso next to it) with my shot glass, you wouldn't believe. btw anyone tried the seaweed sphere capsules? :-)
Never had heard of seaweed capsules.. neat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvktnHozAj4&t=71s
When I drank coffee I would use a Hario V60. Avoiding plastic is trivial (and cheap). $40-50 for the entire setup. I preferred to waste my money on expensive beans instead.
Hario Switch for me. The cheap manual devices make the best brew. Mind you, I make only one strong cup in the am and it's just for me.
The V60 and the Switch are so good! I prefer the V60 when I have time to brew, but the Switch also makes a great cup that's a bit smoother tasting (which is good sometimes, not as good other times), and requires less supervision to brew.
V60 is still the undisputed champ for cleanup though. Dump the filter in the trash, rinse the dripper, and you're done.
I make coffee in an electric percolator. It’s stainless steel, the coffee never touches any plastic. People online say this is the worst way to make coffee, but it tastes fine to me.
We recently switched to that. I don't like the taste as much but not sure what else to do. This coffee thing is getting complicated.
Only in America is a coffee machine without plastic something special.
I used to grind my coffee and manually make espresso. Years ago though I switched to an all-in-one. I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever. I've since had to replace some internal parts and I'm sure the display will eventually fail and not be replaceable, but those grinders are going to last centuries!
I'm assuming you've already noted in your will that the ceramic grinders be harvested from your coffee maker when everything's being sold at an estate sale otherwise what was the point of anything
> I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever.
I wonder about this - I've got a few 1Zpresso grinders - they're rated for 100-200kg of coffee, and napkin math says my most-used one has probably done about 70kg to date. At grinder prices and my age though, not sure I'd ever come out ahead with BIFL burrs though.
No ceramic burr grinders make comparable coffee to steel burrs. They’re all worse. Enjoy your steel burrs and don’t overthink it. Even “worn out” I bet they will taste better than ceramic burrs.
Can you explain why? I don’t know enough about coffee grinders to work out how there could be any difference in the end product.
I'm guessing because ceramics are hard, but not as hard as steel, so they're less precise as grinders.
Thing is, no grinder can produce perfectly-sized grounds 100% of the time. Due to randomness in how the beans break, there will always be pieces smaller than the desired size. (Probably larger pieces sneak through, too.)
Grinders all produce a distribution, it's just that burr grinders tend to have a tighter distribution than cheap spice grinders. I'd guess that ceramic burr grinders have ever-so-slightly more give than steel, and will let through slightly more undesired grounds as a result.
But it's probably a pretty minor effect.
Join team instant coffee. It's way better then its rep. No microplastics either.
Instant coffee is horrible. I choose tea over instant coffee if that's all that is available, but otherwise I drink Aeropress coffee.
> It's way better then its rep
Sorry but no, it has the reputation it deserves. It's an admirable invention for fast caffeine delivery, but you can get so much better flavor out of coffee that it's not even close.
Unfortunately instant coffee still has microplastics from the production process. Probably even more than regular coffee actually.
A Chemex with properly weighed and proportioned beans makes excellent coffee. It’s also plastic free and there isn’t a wait list.
I mean, among real coffee snobs the status symbol is mostly not using a Keurig or Lavazza machine at all. Pour overs, Espresso machines, most status symbol coffee equipment is pretty light on the plastic already.
I think it's less about status or quality and more about a convenient cup of complimentary coffee in a waiting room that doesn't come with two ounces of environmental guilt.
Yeah, my normal morning coffee for my wife and I is from a Kalita Wave glass brewer. No plastic touches the coffee. Costs $40. Ceramic or stainless steel also available.
This. Anyone serious about coffee who is not going with one of these machines purely for convenience and speed would not otherwise consider them in a million years.
It's CNN. Not exactly news snobs.
Do people take pods coffee seriously? If you want to signal true status with coffee you pull your roasted coffee beans from a very exotic place, ground them in your very expensive stainless steel manual grinder and make a very strong, very flavorful espresso in your generic chinese espresso machine (that steo is just heat, water and pressure, no need to go overboard there).
In the hinterlands we use a variable speed drill, a Hilti at this level, to power our manual grinder for the roasted exotic beans before using a stainless steel Alessi moka pot for our coffee.
No sense using our hands to belabor the point when grinding.
I would enjoy a plastic-free drip machine with a thermal carafe for convenient large batches. For now, been enjoying a stainless steel french press and pour over.
Love my La Pavoni.
Check out Coffee Sensor -- they make non-plastic replacement parts, so you can get fully plastic free.
good thread to lookup : https://x.com/levelsio/status/2088235859887726696
Hmm, is all the metal food safe? To what extent?
Does it fix the weird chemical taste of pod coffee?
i just use a stainless steel electric kettle, and a glass ikea french press
$55ish CAD total
This setup does not make good coffee compared to an espresso machine.
I think you mean that setup does not make good espresso compared to an espresso machine. As someone that enjoys good coffee but doesn't particularly like drinking an overly strong thimble of coffee, a cup of milk on top of a thimble of coffee or a grossly stringent cup of coffee I hate the equation that espresso is the best coffee. My favourite bits of coffee, what I enjoy in lighter roasts is lost in espresso. Espresso is nice for cafes because it's a quick non-batch brew, that's about it.
You can have good coffee from any method.
I wouldn't consider a French-press coffee to be espresso. In fact, espresso is probably too fine for a French press.
It does if you like French press
Nonsense. They are different drinks. Filter coffee through a French press can be fantastic, as can Espresso. You can also get dreadful espresso and dreadful filter coffee. However if you start with good beans the chance of getting good coffee out of a French press is much higher than a proper espresso machine (If you know what you're doing it can be amazing, but dialing it in properly is no easy task)
Status: titanium credit card at expensive local coffee shop.
So ridiculous we already have ESE pods for traditional expresso machines. We replaced the Nespresso machine in the office with a normal expresso machine so people can make bring their own ground coffee if they want but we also offer ESE pods for people who don't care but still want a good coffee.
I hate it that Apple products still have so much plastic in them. Makes them look flimsy.
I must be hot shit then, my portafilter has no plasic and neither does my grinder.
I think the status symbol is not having enough time to make it at home and also being able to afford it at Starbucks.